Buy, rehab, rent, refinance! In the 10th episode of CashFloPro we get into the nitty-gritty of real estate with distressed asset professional Tommy Christy. As the founder of Ilovehouses.com, he has acquired, renovated, and leased more than 2,700...
Buy, rehab, rent, refinance! In the 10th episode of CashFloPro we get into the nitty-gritty of real estate with distressed asset professional Tommy Christy. As the founder of Ilovehouses.com, he has acquired, renovated, and leased more than 2,700 homes in Northern California and completed acquisitions in 12 states. We are excited to learn from his endless experience in acquiring both residential and commercial properties through the foreclosure process from owners and banks.
Ilovehouses.com is a real estate investment company and website designed to help owners sell their houses without the hassle of paperwork or intermediaries. Tommy and his team have perfected the process of buying, flipping, and refinancing all types of real estate including damaged, foreclosed, condemned, etc.…
In this episode we discuss:
If you are interested in learning how to make the most out of a seemingly poor real estate deal, don’t miss out on Tommy’s perspective and advice!
Find your flow,
Resources mentioned in this podcast:
Casey Brown 0:06
Hey there, and welcome to the cash flow pro podcast. I am here today with Tommy Christie of I love houses.com. And we are going to be discussing basically everything real estate just as we typically do, we're going to find out what his journey was like where his journey has led him to today. And we're going to be trying to piece everything together in order to help you with your real estate venture. So Tommy, how are you today? Sir?
Unknown Speaker 0:34
I am wonderful. Thank you so much for having me on
Casey Brown 0:37
for the very welcome. We're certainly glad you're here. And we're certainly glad to kind of dive in and maybe look through the world through through your eyes for a few minutes and hear, hear what you've got going on and go from there. So tell us a little bit about, you know, everybody wants to know, you know, how you how you got started, they want to know the processes and all that stuff. But I'd like to know where you were and what kind of an aha moment you had when you were like, Man, this real estate game. Let's let's go into that. So start at the beginning. Tell us what you got.
Unknown Speaker 1:10
Yeah, I I'm here in Northern California. We are a buy, fix and sell real estate. Really, I mean, I actually the word foreclosure has kind of gone forever. I think that we just call ourselves a distressed real estate investors there. Yeah. And it's such that we, in about eight Northern California counties, five states relatively steadily. It's all a matter of kind of a cycle of where each of those market actually have I got started. This is my 20th year so I got started door knocking, learn how to speak to homeowners and do terms deals and really kind of create my portfolio based off of creative. You know, some people talk about location being the greatest word in real estate. I mean, for me, I think it's terms that's absolutely, oh, take a terribly located turn sandwich with amazing terms. If I can keep you know, kind of leading into the as soon as the faster to get your money back faster, get better terms. There's so much going on that. It's never you know, it's it has its own beast. Yep.
Casey Brown 2:26
That's exactly right. We the bur world now let's let's this just real quick for the listeners. Let's say it's buy rehab, refinance, rent, correct.
Unknown Speaker 2:39
Reef rehab, rent it, refinance,
Casey Brown 2:43
refinance. So I got those two backwards. Okay, good. Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 2:47
But it doesn't matter how much equity how the banks look at you. A whole until you get the income. That's exactly
Casey Brown 2:54
right. The income change? Am
Unknown Speaker 2:56
I gonna get my money back?
Casey Brown 2:57
Yep. Yep, they want to know, they're gonna get they're gonna happily give it to you, but they won't know how they're gonna get it back. So, yeah. What's that? commercially? And? That's exactly right. Yeah, yep. So tell us so. So you and I were chatting a little while, before, before we hit record. And we talked about the single family fix and flip or dislike you said, the distressed, then fix and flip. And so, you know, it seemed like you were just active in so many different markets that it was it was almost just mind boggling to me. And, and like you said, if, if the numbers are right, and really, like you said, you can take a property basically anywhere and if the numbers are right, then then you can you can bounce on it and make profit. I mean, it's it's unbelievable to me, that that that that many different markets, and that you have those relationships with that many brokers in those markets. And so, so what, what
Unknown Speaker 4:00
you found on that so yeah, I find that it's really critical to the specific investors kind of based off of what's your capital going to do for you? Like yeah, how soon how long it actually actually is better way of saying and how long can you go without getting your money back? And that qualifies really what we were talking about on the beat, you know, the bigger pockets one was that it's your BuyBox you know, what are you gonna do with your money? And I think what a lot of you know from the real estate investment side, you hear quotes about people's individual success and such it really comes down to how many people you know the relationships, you're leveraging the lenders that are also getting their part of that the joint venture partners, the equity partners in these deals that can help you fit you know, fit the capital share specific to the transactions, so within the last 30 days, We took a you know, we bought one for maybe 35 39,000 bucks like that single family for two state. And then we bought a 16 unit apartment complex out of state. And they tell you the truth, it's like, and we paid, you know, for ad for, you know, a house that needs 150,000 bucks at work here in California. So it's, it is really far a spread and I actually don't have the financing put together yet on the apartment complex I don't like Yeah, I know that I know a deal. When I see it. I know that it's acceptable to have 60 days pre rehab in order to get permits in place. And, you know, whatever the lender requirements are to be able to check a bunch of boxes, they're sure that deal matures. With us having the right team here in the office and no package deals of condos that have come through we just do it as people come through with opportunities. I try and capitalize on as much of those as I can.
Casey Brown 6:04
Yeah. Let's let's expand a little bit of course, because because a lot of our listeners are going to be more you're multi a lot of people of course, multifamily is the is the buzzword of the century seems like right now. And so. So when you're talking about that apartment complex, I'd like to hear just a little bit more about like, what what brought that did was it just a relationship that maybe, like you said, and remember what we discussed pre podcast,
Unknown Speaker 6:38
it was relationship, by the way, we got a 30 year broker, she's just she lives and in the market, she owns rentals in the market, and she just really is good at what she does. So sure, I actually to make tears, you know, your, your crew, she qualified us before she brought us the deal. Sure, sure, in a bring a buyer that she believes will close to the deal. You know, if you get if you have a history thing or delaying, you're not moving your contingencies, or you're not closing, that kind of stuff will haunt you down the road, it's your will, she Yeah, she trips out of a single family for us. And we did a combo package a five pack from her that she had coming up available. And these are just little gems, and it's a matter of these little these agents who want to share this with me give it back to me and that's one of the things that in all of our markets, I'm not licensed in anything, like I'm not a broker. I'm not and so wholesalers will come to me and say, Hey, what do you think of this thing, like because they want to offer 100 And I know that would be a 20% deal or something like off you know that's not going to work for them I tell him like look I can be in this thing 120 and still make my profit and so those kind of lead they know that at least they can now go to 110 and leave 10,000 units for themselves as a wholesaler or other So anyway the broker that brought me that deal on the multifamily side was just she wanted to manage it and there's a huge value they're kind of like a hate she gets to gain her portfolio size you know for management and when we go to close with somebody it's the same thing. Yeah, got job remodeled the big one.
Casey Brown 8:30
Yeah, that's that was always of course you know, my my real estate experiences is has a lot to do with the sales part of the broker part of it and and you know, it took it took a lot of years for me to realize and for me to understand that that you know, you don't have to buy every deal that comes along because as as as as an agent, you could kick that deal to somebody that just assures you that hey when we resell it, I'm going to give it back to you or whatever the case is is as a listing or management or or whatever the case is everything's different and every every every deal is different so so you know those relationships and how you get that's that's that's the word of my podcast is relationships relationships relationships because if you don't have those relationships you a you don't get the you don't get the deals be you you don't ever know what you could have done to add value back to that brokers portfolio like you did with the management and so you know, that's that's and everybody I've had people who want to cut brokers out and I'm like hey man, that's it you're not getting me you know next deal forget you I'm out and so it just it's unbelievable to me that that that that people can't see the value in that part of it.
Unknown Speaker 9:46
So you're looking at like a market like like Texas so what apparently is the biggest state in the world? Like you have a 250 counties right like you could be in any given one of those markets subscribe to like a Roddy list of you guys are on the Ronnie foreclosure lists. And as an agent or a broker, simply put every one of those drives using adult driving for dollars after the data collected inside of there is door hangers, as a listing agent, as a broker that turn into in this condition is not financial, you bring it through, you know, through an investor like myself, you keep it for your own fund, you as licensed individuals, I think have the leg up on having at least you know, more than one exit on every single one of these things. If you have the ability to look at a standard light list, a default list a trustee sale list and, and have a multiple exit thing, you got relationships for all of them, like I think you're in a great place
Casey Brown 10:49
to turn to. And the other thing is, and I can't stress this enough, your broker, now you can't have a broker that just wants to, to sell you anything that comes down the pike, you have to have a broker that says, hey, this over here, based on our market, based on where our market is, today, this over here is a great buy, or I see the rents rising over here, or I see the ability to add on or whatever the case is. And so it really becomes you know, those relationships are so important. So So I guess, are you are you the package deals that this didn't you say that she had this one, and then there was another one that came along with it, and then
Unknown Speaker 11:39
she's a property manager. So it was like if her clients say, Hey, I'm going to be selling these or she knows what are making inventory? She said, Would you be okay, if I share the addresses with one of my clients, and that was as simple as it is, they're going to use her to, you know, to go to standard market with the homes, if it does turn out that we could be more convenient on sale, we could be you know, we can meet terms that needs you know, these are both vacant wasn't like they needed an extended hold back or something like that, like we have, we have the ability to we loan people money, we get the contract to move out or other takes even back it's just almost like it's part of the past through deposit in order to do these deals. So then she we got interest in those that had written off Route on those. And during that same time period, one of our sellers was gonna move five condos together. So we got in contract with those five condos at the same time, too. And also those are like a 2% You know, rent roll like, you know, they're they're gonna bring in I bet you gross on those, as they sit is 9600 bucks, or $38,000 purchase?
Casey Brown 12:51
Wow. Yeah. So I mean, you know, that's, that's like, that's, I mean, golly,
Unknown Speaker 12:58
yeah. So there's each way you take out the HOA, it's like a 2x, you know, like, people talk about the 1% rule or the 2% rule. And these are gonna explode in appreciation. But, you know, I've held the button California for 20 that are worth 375. Yeah, the appreciation can kind of almost always exceed in some of markets, but they're come in different markets at different times in the world to I can go back in time.
Casey Brown 13:21
Yeah, and you know, a lot of times the key to a lot of that stuff is a guy one time. Again, as my listeners are aware, I tend to go back and like if I had this the special effects, I could drop a black cloud hearing go back in time and I had a guy tell me one time he defined something for me that was there was a somewhat of an aha moment or a mini aha moment. For me, it was whole, like holding power. Like once, once you determine that you can't just you don't buy something either just for the cash flow, or just for the appreciation, but you have to you have to position yourself to be able to hold that property because if you can hold the holding power is where the most profits are, especially in states like California, because you know, those peaks and valleys they're fairly steep, they're but they're closer together. So you're so your peak is going to be here and you could drop into a valley and then your pee you know, you're going to peak higher than you did the last time giving you a higher running average and that holding power, the ability to be able to to sit on that property if for some reason it became vacant, or for some reason it became you know, where you had to do a bunch of work to it or had a you had a tenant that destroyed it. The holding power really comes down especially in those those areas like that, am I right? Is that is that kind of what you're what you're maybe I think there to make
Unknown Speaker 14:49
it relative to your you know, the investors and the people listening to your show. There's there's a flip dead zone, right you have the more you flip, the more manpower You need or the more you got to be on site or soup. I mean, it's really management. Heavy. You know, you and I were talking about how the Warren Buffett model was basically, he treats real estate like it. People that are dominating real estate have to be a business, you really got to treat it the same way inside of any other business. You do. Staffing and timeframes, velocity, everything that affects that kind of stuff. Yeah, well, when you buy a market rate deal, if you're buying a six cap now, and rents go up and interest rates go down, that longevity you're talking about, pays handsomely, you know, in cap rate multiples. So the patience, the ability to sell, when you need to or when you want to is like are we talking night and day? I mean, on? I think that that's the greatest risk to our real estate market now is liquidity. Yeah. Into multifamily. Who it made sense? The day you bought it? Yep. It's making even more sense as the inability to make an inability to construct affordable units has changed the game too. So yeah.
Casey Brown 16:15
Well, you know, and, and just as the listeners are aware, sometimes I tend to be very, very, very black and white. And let's be honest, you know, there's going to be very few problems until somebody loses money, okay? Or doesn't, or you don't yield to them, by them calling you and saying, Hey, man, such a such happened, I need my money back out of your investment. And there's never any trouble until that kind of stuff happens. And when that stuff starts happening, and everybody you know, because real estate, you know, real estate loans, or like you said, liquidity is going to be big, that's going to be a big, that's gonna be a big point of contention that's could that's going to come at some point is, you know, something made perfect sense, had a great return, and this, it had this and this, but then all of a sudden, something happened, and it didn't
Unknown Speaker 17:11
Casey Brown 17:14
Yeah, or didn't perform the way that you oversold it when you asked for the investment, and then it didn't perform and now everybody's mad and, and whatever the case is, you know, you have to look at things like that and look at them through the lens of saying, you know, what's, what's our worst case scenario? What's our risk, be reward here, you know, and so go from there. But so so let's I want to transition just a little bit here and kind of move move towards where you all are headed. As in I do recall, you said that you also have a debt fund as well, correct?
Unknown Speaker 17:56
Yeah, we're doing a raise right now. It's, it's actually the we call the duplex fun, it's duplex dot fund is what we're kind of our focus for this thing will be is sure, right now, nobody's going to produce this. I've made my money doing really small residential deals. And at the time, they were just small residential deals, I mean, stuff that you could buy for 45 That maybe only was worth 60 at the time. Sure. For 60s. I mean, I, I was picking and choosing markets where I could put down the least amount of money and get the most amount of leverage to be able to buy and hold real estate. Yeah. What I'm finding now is, is that our, if you go back only two years or average take down was $209,000. So it's taken us 135 days to get out of the house. Yeah, now, we're going to pay for a quarter for our average take down here in California. Yeah, vacant ones we can usually get out of in 90 days. And the velocity gets significant upside
Casey Brown 19:02
now. So if they're not vacant, you're you're talking about you're talking about buying the you're talking about buying the paper initially right and then then you have to deal with the resident there so
Unknown Speaker 19:15
Fornia you know, the the actual Tate you know, acquiring occupied right now is happening because people are making the liquidity calls or whatever decisions they're making, you know, interest rates are going up they read one one female article that scares them and we're, we're by and stuff that people just don't want to deal with the occupants. That's the difference. It's tenants and occupants two completely different words. Yeah. Occupying the house in California, it's very unfriendly. I guess eviction procedure or get to get legal occupancy for those houses. In some of our other states, it's just as simple you know, you send instead of like, like a 30 day notice they call it like a 30 day notice to evict and like, just seems aggressive but in reality, that's the truth. It's like, hey, they're still landowners rights, they're in a different way there
Casey Brown 20:13
were at 38 days, basically, I mean, you know, they have to be 30 days late. And then, and then after, you know, once or 30 days late, you filed the court and if you can get on the docket, you know, you get on the docket and the judge basically just, you have seven so, so you've got, you can be 38 days, and then another seven days for them to
Unknown Speaker 20:35
build 90 days and 3000 bucks into it, even if you if you will buy someone someone's been in there for more than a year here in California gotta pay him a month's rent just to move out. I mean, no matter what, even if then we pay him a month on top of that, you know, so or whatever the timing is whatever we can work
Casey Brown 20:50
out. Yeah, it's it's, it's a cost verse. Yeah, I mean, if you're sitting on the money, and
Unknown Speaker 20:56
yeah, but if we buy I mean, Ark, the best product I guarantee on all your listeners markets to this 55 and older product, it's been I mean, they're just not pumping out enough of this stuff. If you get rehabilitated, like model home quality, Rufino finishes, and some of these remodels, they're getting bid up like crazy. So we're doing those and 75 to 90 days when they're vacant. And so that's, you know, there's a huge niche there. But, you know, for a multifamily guy like yourself, it's even service, the service level duplexes and small stuff that are sugar, My hearts in this this, you know, the small plays that I did, there's a lot of people out there tell you, it takes as much time to rehabilitate a 16 unit apartment complex as it does, you know, a single house but the beast?
Casey Brown 21:46
Yeah, yeah. Well, so. So let's, I want to step back to, because one of the, what I see here is, has the potential, what you do has the potential to be a basically a service nightmare from the occupants to buying the property. And we haven't even discussed, we haven't even touched on the contractors that that are that if you're in 18 different markets. Man, that's 18 different contractors that you're basically having to deal with or FOIA well back up that that's 18 different contractors, you have to find, or have a previous relationship with bid hire, Dawn, and on and on. And then not only that, let's let's step into the realm of saying, man, not all contractors are created equal for sure. Not directly contractors, that Yeah, exactly right. Because you for instance, in my state, they don't even have to be licensed. And it's, it's, you're basically you've got somebody who all they got to do is pop up a Facebook page, and now they're in the home repair business. And, and they've got a truck and that's that's basically the
Unknown Speaker 23:09
I see as bandwidth. I mean, I I'm doing only one and Tallahassee right now. And we just looked at two leads in Tampa and inside of that I'm actually find more brokers and agents that want to be a part of that people that want to flip or learn or be part of that that are compensated, I have one guy that I got a great relationship with. He's a broker finds it gets paid for finding the stuff on MLS gets the agency on the in agency on the out and 10% of construction. And again, getting returns in the teens in this market that I will never stop like,
Casey Brown 23:50
yeah, it makes perfect sense now. Now do you use any of the Do you use any of the services that are out there for home flippers? Like for instance, you know, there's there's, there's companies where they basically use some of them call them I think the term might be a little bit loose when they when they start talking about the they're, like funds like like they have they have funds that step in and they're like, Okay, we're, we're good to buy X number of houses in X market at x price. And, and, you know, are you members of any of those platforms? I don't I'm trying to think like,
Unknown Speaker 24:24
yeah, you know, I I was actually the regional president for a company called imputation homes are actually based in Dallas invitationals we did 14 markets. And if you read about the big bad, you know, investors when they're blaming Wall Street for everything it was we were Blackstone funded. So we had, you know, they had a billion couple billion dollar run. We had eight when I left Sacramentals market where it was, I think we had 7080 employees and 2500 houses we did in two years. So those models really work for any of your investors. They are in Charlotte or that are in Dallas or specific sub markets find assets that are in the school districts that match where they're buying right now or the their buying criteria. Their Buy Box is very specific. It's not like, I like Casey more than I like Tommy I'm going to buy his house only, like we're talking about allocations per market in the 1000 Plus houses, you know, they fits in the box, they'll buy it off you and that's it. There's a ton of value there for American homes for rent for you know, call me I think calling is now inside of American homes for rent. But sure, sure, you know, I mean, with some of these other markets, they'll buy your product off you it's it literally is just like calling them and saying, Hey, I got a house to sell, you get your name on the list, one of those people will call you they go through the metrics. And they make you that offer.
Casey Brown 25:55
Yeah. So So let me ask you this, how many because I've dealt on the sales side with several folks like yourself, I mean, just people that come in, you know, we're just outside of Nashville. And so And of course, the markets around here, just nuts in for him in every aspect down to leasing space is just It's unbelievable, really. But and the few times that I've ran across, basically, I don't know, if you really want to call institutional buyers or whatever, whatever the correct term is for somebody that's just that's buying a package or says hey, these, like you said, the buy box, the box that fits. You know, they the most recent that I can remember, they came in put an offer in they were they were probably 30% higher than the local home flipper bond pa people that wanted to flip homes, they were 30% higher on their offer price, okay. They came in, they spent, I think it was 450 or 550. On an inspection they had to they had two different inspectors for two different purposes. Both inspectors were basically like white label, hey, I'm here for x, whatever. Now, they came into the inspection, the inspection didn't really suit them. So they're like, alright, we're out. So so they're 550 bucks invested in a house that they didn't get. Now the house ultimately ended up going. The reason I'm telling the story is because then ended up going to the next, quote unquote, institutional person came in, they said, hey, those repairs aren't that bad. We'll take it. So needless to say, how many of those inspections of that sort Do you find yourself doing before you find a deal because obviously, if you do 10 of those inspections, you've got to add five, and you only end up buying one, you've got to add all of that money to that one. So I mean, is that is that a huge deal? I mean, do you do a lot of inspections
Unknown Speaker 27:55
for someone that you know, does 60 deals a year or someone's doing 600 Like them, which you know, to expand on your question you're talking about for me in my opinion $550 for the home inspections on all of our nine of them that fail and then one of them we buy Yeah, no, you're asking.
Casey Brown 28:11
Yeah, yeah, I mean Yeah.
Unknown Speaker 28:13
I you know, we I look at it like it's just a line item and spreadsheet. You know, like if you ask a good friend of ours she's got an investment property history she's more of a broker realtor. She actually cameras the sewer on every single one of hers. Ah, really? Yeah, like it is a everybody's got their comfort zone like we've been building relationship with a national lender and it's like, we can write $20,000 on there and it means nothing. It's like in our world you're like that could be just dry rot and pain and the HVAC just needs to be serviced up and deep cleaning and hauling and minor landscaping but the lenders look at it like oh well is it gonna be for baseboards and trim you have to like check 30 boxes to say how you're gonna spend but if you're underwriting 10 deals a week and only closing you know one in order to get to 5060 deals a year it becomes an unnecessary layer like I look at it like the ones that are showing any signs of there might be something here you know if it's 1972 or newer, single family like the market doesn't want to know I mean the market we're not going to fix an 80 point to do list that the yeah home inspectors sends us but we did just buy an 1800s built house and in the in Indiana we definitely got it to do list on there I would say that's probably yes I would definitely invest in that and and then the brokers will tell you the truth it'd be like hey we got expanding soils in this area for the inspection or this area has a lot of moisture issues like definitely have someone inspect the
Casey Brown 29:55
my go to term where I live is hydrant soils we have hydric soils denied oil. So yeah, that's
Unknown Speaker 30:01
a good investment and, and there's a lot of people to talk themselves out of a deal because they don't wanna spend 550 bucks on homes. But see this market? They got they got two $3,000 of appreciation in a month sometimes, you know,
Casey Brown 30:15
contract. Yeah. And you're worried about a $550 inspection? Oh, absolutely. 100% I'm with you. And then, so, you know, we'll, we'll listen, we're kind of, we're kind of getting ready to wrap up here. It's I love houses.com. And of course, I we want to tell the listeners how they can reach out to you of course, if they're, if they're looking to possibly play some capital and then love your business model. Yeah, that'd be great. Yeah, are wanting to chat with you. Maybe they say, Hey, man, I live in Tulsa and I got a house that that's just for you. And then they call and sell it to you so so tell the listeners how they can reach out to you and
Unknown Speaker 30:52
email wise, I get a lot of just the Tommy I love houses.com. I've been if you just Google Tommy Christie for my LinkedIn, you'll see me going like, that's me. There you go my own face. But I mean, I do encourage people I've actually got a ton out of random emails I get from people for just just connecting Andr we're actually working on something outside of San Antonio now from a marketing campaign that someone we're piggybacking on their leads, like their extra leads that came out of it just like, well, if you're willing to go anywhere, like why not San Antonio like and so now we're working on something in San Antonio, I think's gonna work for both of us.
Casey Brown 31:31
Yeah, that's great. Yeah. Yeah, that's awesome.
Unknown Speaker 31:36
To hear from people
Casey Brown 31:37
just expand the expand your reach and, and be a benefit for people. And you know, the other thing is, and I know, it's, we're all we're here to make money, of course, but you know, I've actually been in this situation where, where, personally, where a homeowner calls and you know, they're just, a lot of times when you get to where you're getting a call from somebody like you You're, you're likely or at either the end of your rope, the bottom, you're down, you're down and out. And you know, and fortunately, at times, you're able to help people, I'm sure, because a lot of people don't even know what to do they just they they get down they get behind on their payment and and you know, you have your professional squatters only wrong and you have your professionals that, that have it all figured out. But you also have the people who get knocked down who are just, we're just down and out that they don't really know what to do. And you know, like you said, maybe maybe you have to offer them a month's rent. But you never know that month's rent could be what gets them back. Going. It could be what what helps them get move forward. And so it's not all profit all the time, because sometimes your profit can be non non dollars, you know what I'm saying? It can just be the fact that maybe, hey, you help so and so get back on his feet. That was all it took. And then he realized that it was you know, and now everything kind of moving forward for him. So anyway, well, Tommy, we do appreciate your time. We appreciate everything you've given to us here and and we hope the listeners have found value. And listen, guys, if you want to reach out, reach out to Tommy I love houses.com and he'll be glad to help you but it's Tommy at I love houses plural.com. So reach out to him and Tommy I know you'll be glad to take care of anybody that does more to it. Yeah, yep, we certainly appreciate your time. Thank you guys. Yes, sir. Have a good one. Thank you
Transcribed by https://otter.ai