June 28, 2022

The Psychology Of The Real Estate Market with Mariusz Skonieczny

The Psychology Of The Real Estate Market with Mariusz Skonieczny

“Investing is More Mental Than Anything Else” In this episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk with Mariusz Skonieczny, founder of MicroCap Explosions. He graduated from Indiana University in 2003 with a finance degree but was inspired by books like Rich...

“Investing is More Mental Than Anything Else”

In this episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk with Mariusz Skonieczny, founder of MicroCap Explosions. He graduated from Indiana University in 2003 with a finance degree but was inspired by books like Rich Dad,  Poor Dad to pursue real estate. So, from 2003 to 2008, he was an appraiser and broker in the residential and commercial real estate industry. He took a brief break during the 2008 financial crisis to focus exclusively on the stock market investing $10,000. By 2021, his account reached $7 million. His route to success was not a steady one, but hey, that’s microcap investing. Today, Mariusz is here to tell us all about the psychology of the real estate market and how we can use it for all our future investments!



MicroCap Explosions is a private membership website focused on finding investment opportunities in the microcap and small-cap space where the competition from retail and institution investors is minimal.



In this episode, we discuss:

  • Microcap stocks
  • Finding the right broker
  • Appraising


If you are interested in learning more about the right time to find deals and better understand potential investors, make sure to tune in on this episode!


Find your flow,

Casey Brown


Resources mentioned in this podcast:


Unknown Speaker  0:00  
Okay to that. South Bend, Indiana, not far from where I'm at.

Unknown Speaker  0:07  
Hello, and welcome to today's episode of cash flow Pro, your daily real estate investing podcast and YouTube channel. Now I am here today with Ma Roush. Is that right? Yes, Maria.

Unknown Speaker  0:24  
All right now, that will be in the show notes for those who need the spelling and want to know how to reach out to him. He is coming to us today we were talking a little bit about

Unknown Speaker  0:35  
the psychology of the real estate market. And when the best time to get a deal on real estate investments is and whether it's when everybody's happy and going and running and ready to rock and roll, there's never gonna be another bad day, or when people are freaking out. And it is all of a sudden the end of the world because the market has turned or what not. So tell us a little bit about yourself where you come from what you got going on with, with business today. And then we'll we'll get into the direction that you're not talked about pre prior to the show. Yeah, so thanks for having me,

Unknown Speaker  1:13  
after college 2003 and graduated with a finance degree. And I entered the real estate industry at that this was during the time where poor dad Rich Dad, those books were becoming popular. So I was interested in real estate investing. And I since I didn't have any money, I figured might as well learn how to appraise real estate and how to value it. So I became a real estate appraiser on the residential side, then I did commercial side, and then I moved into the brokerage side. And then in 2008 2009, financial crisis when everything was falling apart, that's when I left the industry because at that time, I was already studying on my own the stock market, Warren Buffett, and I just had more passion on the stock market side. And I left that and since then I've been you know, it's been like 12 or 13 years. So I started with 10,000. And I turned it into like 7 million over 12 years. So notice, I didn't say two weeks. And

Unknown Speaker  2:13  
yeah, yeah, it took about 12 years to get there. And so that's a short introduction of, you know, my, my, my path. Awesome, awesome. And you said you live in South Bend, Indiana. That's right. And so what's I guess, let's talk a little bit of what can you tell us what, uh, is it a micro cap stock? You said?

Unknown Speaker  2:37  
Yes. So so it's very interesting dynamic, because

Unknown Speaker  2:42  
you see it since since you're in real estate, I've always had this. People like to categorize themselves into something, I'm in real estate, because I can control it, I can touch it. And, you know, the stock market is something risky, unpredictable, and all that. And I always say it's like, look, you can lose money in real estate perfectly fine. Okay, if you over leverage yourself, if you buy the property in the wrong location, if you don't pay your bills, if you don't have your tenants, you're gonna lose money. Okay? So it's not, it's not the private ownership of real estate, or public ownership. What matters is the business behind it. There's no such thing as Oh, the stock market is good or bad. But there is such thing as good and bad companies, the companies that are going to make you rich and companies that are going to belly up. That's the difference. And the area of the stock market that I focus on, is micro cap stocks, which

Unknown Speaker  3:40  
different people have different categories, but they are companies that their equity or market market capitalization is about less than around 100 million less than 100 million. And this is an area where the financial industry ignores. It's almost like somebody told me the other day when you're involved in micro cap, it's like the N word for the financial industry. Like, like they they automatically think Penny stocks, your pump and dumper like so as a result, when you go into this area and you do it properly. Like you seriously look at the businesses behind it, the fundamentals behind it, the clients, the revenues and all that. You literally have no competition because the real the retail side doesn't even know this area exists. The retail people are chasing the the crypto the AMC that Tesla's of the world. They don't even know this area exists. The hedge funds don't go there because they're too big. If you have billions of dollars on their management, you cannot go to be chasing 100 million dollar companies because first of all, you can't get you can't acquire 100% of them. And so if you get five or 10 million of equity What if you have $2 billion you have to find 1000s of them so that doesn't work. So So for your for people like me who want to roll up their sleeves and you know

Unknown Speaker  5:00  
I'll do it right, there's so little competition. And that's the only reason why I'm there, not because I like this area, because I would say 80 to 90% of companies in that space are trash, and you shouldn't ever touch. But those other 10 to 20% are interesting. And, and, you know, if you choose them, right, you can change your life, you know, simply because everybody else refuses to be in this area.

Unknown Speaker  5:22  
Now, what so so you're right. And, and honestly from from somebody that's not in

Unknown Speaker  5:33  
fun? Well, from somebody that's not necessarily in the stock market or in the in the in the analyzation of different companies, when you start talking about $100 million company, and you think about micro cap being something under that you're exactly right. And it doesn't make sense until you start talking about the billions under management, and how many 1000s of those companies you would have to own five or 10% of in order to ever place the capital that needs to be placed for your for your fund. But so what are the kinds of things that that stuck out to you as a company that was worth your, your time to investigate? Okay, so, so since again, since you guys speak the real estate, a topic, I will give you an example of one company that stood out to me. So I went through like,

Unknown Speaker  6:28  
two or 3000 companies on this particular exchange called Toronto Stock Exchange venture. And that was like in 2019. Okay, and then there was this one company called today, it's called the Boxster VOXD. You are back then it was called, I look about. And I looked at it, and they were saying that they are improving the real estate appraisal process. Because Because the average age of an appraiser is 62 years old. There's not enough, there's not enough of them, most of them are white.

Unknown Speaker  7:04  
People don't go into the real estate space after college is usually their second second career. So the real estate appraisal was, is the bottleneck for the real estate transaction, it creates a lot of stress for the owner for the broker. And so it's a major issue. Well, that company,

Unknown Speaker  7:24  
what they were doing is they were putting together various different databases, various different MLS, assessment data, all these data databases together, so that they can speed up the appraiser. So in other words, they could give the appraisers all the data injected into the appraisal reports. And the appraiser has the appraisal done 90% before he even inspects the property.

Unknown Speaker  7:50  
So I looked at it, and I was like, okay, you know, I understand the industry, they're building something special. And so I started studying it. And I realized, and nobody knew about it, it was on this exchange, that the founder of this company, or the CEO of this company, found that other two companies that were became like a billion dollar companies, one was an author's group, which focused on a commercial real estate, and the other one was real Matters, which was like the appraisal management company. And so, so he knew what he was doing. He had all these contacts. And so I got interested, I invested in it. And recently, for example, I'm not sure if you're aware of it on April 6, Fannie Mae changed the guidelines to allow attorney opinion letter to be used as an alternative to title insurance. And many people don't realize that title insurance is like a scam. Because the regular insurance companies, whether health or auto, when they collect your premiums, about 80% of those premiums are paid out in claims, because they price those policies based on probabilities in title, because title because title research and title documents and title data is so good. Only 5% of premiums get paid out in claims. So So literally title companies are like robbing the entire real estate buyers and sellers. So this company, was working with Fannie and Freddie for like two years to introduce a new product to compete with title insurance that is cheaper, at least 50% cheaper. And it's called an attorney opinion letter, where and but nobody is going to use an alternative product. Unless Fannie and Freddie approve it, because everything has to be everything has to check all these boxes. If any, and Freddie approves something, then that mortgage can be sold to a secondary market. And that's what happens. Somebody originated that mortgage gets sold to a secondary market. So on April 6 day I proved attorney opinion letter as an alternative to title and that company called Voxer, which used to be called I look about it, they change the name to Boxster

Unknown Speaker  10:00  
He has a patent on this, and they are the only game in town. So now, this whole industry is about to get disrupted, or they're going to about to steal some market share from title. And because the industry is so humongous a billion dollar industry for a company of this size, which is now now the size of the company is like 500 million, but it's still considered a small company. And it's still not trading on the major exchanges, like NASDAQ or New York Stock Exchange, which it will later this year, it's still trading on TSX V, which is Toronto Stock Exchange venture, all of these things are happening. And barely anybody pays attention. Yeah, I mean, anybody that is in real estate, they're like their eyes gets so big when they hear it because it's so humongous. But that's just an example of how I can identify something, nobody else understands what's going on. Because the company is trading on a secondary exchange, I can get as many shares as I want, I can analyze the company, I can buy into it, before everybody gets aware of it. And before it gets up listed to NASDAQ. And once it's on NASDAQ, then, you know, that whole world is gone. Yep. Now what how do you obviously it's research and so on and so forth? How you find out about these things, but how Where do you

Unknown Speaker  11:21  
turn on like here? Can anybody go trade on the Toronto Stock?

Unknown Speaker  11:28  
Well, you have to, you have to have some brokers are just vanilla brokers, where they just give you access to the most popular exchange, you need to I have a broker, I mean, a lot of people have an Interactive Brokers, and you can have that they give you access to other exchanges, international exchanges. And so you need to request it, and you need to get the permission to trade penny stocks. Because, you know, micro cap stocks, they sometimes sometimes they might have do your ticker symbol, they might trade on like an international exchange, but they might also get a US ticker symbol, which is an OTC over the market. So to do that, you have to have permission from the broker to trade the format forbidden, you know, exchange, you know, so I gotcha and the penny stock. Of course, we all know the story of have quite a few have at least a few of those penny stock guy. So. But yeah, that's interesting. And it's and it's such a, it's so intriguing to know that there's a lot of those smaller companies out there and, and some of their some of the technology that some of them harbor is pretty significant as far as especially the real estate world goes. And there was one a couple years ago that I didn't own stock in, but I subscribed to their, to their platform. And it was it was a

Unknown Speaker  12:53  
artificial intelligence platform that could, that could

Unknown Speaker  12:58  
basically give you the odds that somebody on your list was getting ready to move based on online action, but based on actions that things they were doing online, and of course, I'm assuming that like, if they're shopping for boxes that such and such, you know, if they're looking to buy mass amounts of boxes, or something, I'm sure that you know, that's obviously one of the most obvious ones, but there's a lot of those just little companies out there that that are that have these technological breakthroughs, but it just takes them forever to get the funding, it takes them forever to get finance to take them forever to get found out. And then before they really get to take off. I mean, think about the predictability of somebody getting ready to having a program that aggregates enough information in one spot to be able to predict whether somebody's going to move or not. I mean, you know, that's, that's scary and big at the same time. I mean, it's so there's a lot of that stuff out there, especially in the real estate sector. Because it's such a big transaction. And for so many years, it's been such a profitable transaction for everybody from real estate agents to insurance. People, you know, it's tough for moving companies to, to box companies that you have the sum money moving or, or the real estate business in general has been pretty profitable for a lot of different companies. But it's interesting, it's interesting that you're saying that because

Unknown Speaker  14:23  
sometimes, what you what you can have is, you can have a company that has this great technology, a great solution. But it can't go because of lack of capital, but he also has a hard time growing because of lack of contacts in the industry. Because the real estate industry is driven by these huge players with big, big, big mark market market shares. And so going back to this company that I told you about Boxster there was there was this company called a now and he now had kind of like this app

Unknown Speaker  15:00  
grading system connecting appraisers with the lenders like it because appraisers are still submitting the appraisal reports in PDF forms, like it's so inefficient. So So then this appraiser, second third generation appraiser, CO that learn how to code and he created this platform called cold email, where, you know, it was connecting all of these parties together. But he couldn't really get big clients because he was nobody in the industry. And that's when a company like Voxer came in. And I acquired them. And literally, within weeks, lend at UW M, United Wholesale mortgage, as the client, because United Wholesale mortgage, what they were doing is

Unknown Speaker  15:47  
they wanted to get competitive advantage and go appraisal direct. So instead of going through an appraisal management company, they wanted to go appraisal direct directly to their management. And they use that platform a now which was acquired, and it was only possible for that platform to get so big, under an umbrella of a bigger company with particular connections to these Wells Fargo's of the world and JP Morgan's. So, so you see that a lot. So it's very interesting that you said that. Yeah, yeah. And it's, like you said there, the the company didn't even get wouldn't have even seen the light of day if it hadn't been acquired by another small company, that, you know, where the funding was probably made very possible by investors like yourself in the micro cap market. And of course, again, when somebody hears $100 million, that's obviously a lot of money if you have it in your pocket. But when you're talking about $100 million

Unknown Speaker  16:44  
in gross revenue company, it's not that you know, that's not that wildly big. I mean, it's not that crazy big. So will tell us a little bit about so. So when we start talking about real estate investing, and investments, and so on and so forth.

Unknown Speaker  17:01  
How did you? Where are you at in that game right now?

Unknown Speaker  17:07  
With real estate? Yeah, I don't, I don't own any real estate other than my house, okay. But, but I am interested, I am looking at possibly 12 to 24 months down the road to diversify

Unknown Speaker  17:24  
into real estate. So I can, you know, have a

Unknown Speaker  17:28  
have a, you know, consistent monthly income, it hasn't. And now it's a better time to do it. Because when interest rates go up, and you want to buy, you know, apartments, well, your cap rates are going to be higher, so the purchase price is going to be lower. But before before the market started crashing. And before it became became fashionable to talk about housing crash and, and recession. I was actually I went to Wichita Falls, because I was interested in buying a, it was like a 25 unit mobile home park. And it looked great on paper. So I jumped in the car, I drove straight 16 hours, one way to look at it, because you know, we needed to jump on it very fast. Unfortunately, by the time I got there, what we ended up doing is telling the seller, you know what? This place is so bad, that we will only take it from you if you give it to us for free.

Unknown Speaker  18:21  
And then it would probably still be too much. So that was my recent. You know,

Unknown Speaker  18:29  
I attempt to

Unknown Speaker  18:32  
be heard, I don't know that I've ever heard anybody put it like that, that this place is so bad that the only way we'll take it is we'll give it we'll take it for free. No, it was I mean, when I walked in there, it was like a World War Two, half of the half of the mobile homes, had no windows, no doors.

Unknown Speaker  18:49  
Then I then when I went to the city, and then the utilities, I learned that they don't have any water there. They cut off all the utilities, and they were delivering water to the tenants in in jugs of water. And the seller of course conveniently forgot to tell us that.

Unknown Speaker  19:08  
Oh, man. So there you drove 16 hours one way to find that out? Yeah. Yeah. So that when we so then when we told the seller, you know, we'll take it only if you give it to us for free, because we're gonna have to put in half a million dollars into it just to bring it through back to the standards. And also we had a I mean, half of those trailers would have to be like, seriously remodeled and and so when we had a meeting with the city, the city said, yeah, you can remodel them, but you have to use licensed contractors. Well, that alone was like it's going to cost us $30,000 per trailer or per mobile home to do this because you're putting this requirement on us. When we have our people we could have it fixed. You know for for 15,000 not 30,000 And it doesn't make any sense to remodel a mobile home for 30,000

Unknown Speaker  20:00  
If you can buy a new one for 40 or 45, it doesn't make any sense. So the city killed it for us. And but, you know, and you know, the seller didn't want to give it to us for free, of course, because somebody else was going to pay something, and that somebody else probably probably didn't do the kind of due diligence that we did. Wow. And they were delivering why just out of curiosity, how much were they asking for the mobile home park? They were asking for $200,000. So as you can see, the price was looked very good on paper, you run some numbers. You know, it looked very good. So you, you come in, you know, you fix up the trailers and you evict the drug dealers and prostitutes, you know, and, and then you can you can really turn it around, but but after we looked at it, we can we can pay 200,000 for the property, then put in 500,000 into it, you're into it for 700 Well, 25 unit mobile home park that, you know.

Unknown Speaker  21:01  
Yeah, 700, you might as well have something that's real real property that's not depreciating like a mobile home. I mean, like the mobile homes and a mobile home park. So, but the the fact that they were totally water to him and jugs, that's, that's a little bit extreme. I think even for the most, even for the most aggressive investors that are willing to just about take on anything. I think that's even over the line, if you will, so. But I'd like to hear just a little bit more about this. So where do you know where this automated or not automated? But do you know where this appraisal company that you're talking about? Voxer? Do you know where that stands right now? How active are they? You said they were?

Unknown Speaker  21:49  
Where does that stand as of right this minute?

Unknown Speaker  21:54  
Well, they

Unknown Speaker  21:56  
Well, first of all, they are already publicly traded. So people can buy stock in it, the ticker symbol is V XTR. And so they are you know, they are in the process of increasing the revenue signing up clients and, and that attorney opinion letter product is launching, like within weeks. So so they have three major products that are launching attorney opinion letter, and then RPGA, which is right now, in real estate, when you have when you pay your property taxes, the assessor, you know, gives you the price or assessment and then they give you the bill and nobody really questions it. Well, they're coming out with this product, because they have all this data that they're going to tell their homeowners whether their property taxes are too high, or too low, and by how much. And they're only also going to release this product to the lender, because the lender has a fiduciary responsibility to make sure that the taxes are correct. So imagine this product coming out in this market now. So so they have these major products coming out right now. And it's not. And this is not a company that has like no revenues they have, they have about $200 million worth of revenues per year as we speak. And their market cap is about 500 million. So it's not expensive. But when they are coming out with these new product products, that into a market that's like so hungry and also a Fannie Mae and Freddie Mae would they're interested is lowering the transaction costs for real estate transactions in December in December, they came out with a study saying that the closing costs for low income people are higher than the non payment. Like, it's absolutely ridiculous. So they are interested in lowering those costs. And the biggest two biggest contributors for real estate transaction are the appraisal and, and title. So this company literally has a solution for both,

Unknown Speaker  24:01  
you know, because they're lowering the appraisal costs, their goal is to lower the appraisal costs from 800 to 200. And from from three weeks to two days. Because when you have all this data like you can get the appraisal done. So and then also the attorney opinion letter. So when you combine this, they they will have a solution to the market instead of you know $3,000 For the appraisal and title you can get both for 800 bucks. So now you tell me ever understood. Yeah. So you tell me if you're the lender, if you're the lender and you have a mortgage and you know mortgage is a commodity in other words, you don't care who you get the mortgage from as long as the the rate is the best. But all the other players have the same access to capital so that they can really differentiate themselves too much on the on the interest rates, but what they can't differentiate themselves are on closing costs and speed. So now you tell me if you're the lender and you have an option to offer people $800 For title and

Unknown Speaker  25:00  
appraisal, and instead of through three weeks, three days, don't you think I would have your attention? Yep. Yep. And I'll tell you, I had, I've said it for years that, you know, there used to, and it hadn't been that long ago when somebody like, if I went out and was was looking to buy a rental house, okay. And I would get it bought, and then I would go home or I would be talking to some friends and I, you know, Hey, man, Yep, got that house bought. And guess what, I only paid what they're what the taxpayer what the tax card said it said it's worth it, if you paid with the tax card said it was worth you got a good deal. And everybody knew that. And which was a double edged sword, because then all of a sudden, the government was like, Okay, we're fighting tooth and nail to get our tax, our tax rates increased? Well, you know what, to hell with increasing the tax rates, we'll go the non voting way. And we'll just start raising the assessment values. And now, with that being said, the assessment values have really gone up. But, you know, they also took a hike where they went up to what these things are really worth. And that's, I mean, that's huge. And especially if you get if you get the bank involved, by giving them by saying, Hey, this is the taxable value of this house, and then the bank starts setting precedent by my call on the back calling the tax record value one way or the other. I mean, that's, that's gonna be big man. I mean, that's, I mean, think about it. Also, from your point of view, you'll probably own a house. Right? Yeah. Why wouldn't you be interested in in, you know, paying $25 per year to find out if your taxes are in line with your neighbors? Or if

Unknown Speaker  26:56  
it should? Yeah, absolutely. So yeah, so we have a huge market, 100 100 100 40 million homes, that is a possible buyer for this. And then if you if you're the bank, that holds the mortgage? Wouldn't you want to know if the taxes on the mortgage collateral are too high or too low? And and it will cost you if you're the bank? It will cost you $5? A year? Per? per house? Wouldn't you want to know? Sure. Sure. Yeah. I mean, it makes sense. Because then you can, I mean, yeah, for that little bit of money. I mean, my gosh, but

Unknown Speaker  27:32  
you know, and it's and, and I have shook my head for quite a while at the appraisal process in general, when it comes to just like, they're like, yep, we can get an upgrade just for we bought some my wife and I closed on one here not long ago. And they realize like, it was six weeks on an appraisal. I mean, six weeks. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  27:54  
Because there's not enough of them. There's not enough of them. We're not creating them. And then the process is just so outdated. But also in July, you see,

Unknown Speaker  28:04  
there's two types of appraisals, there is regular appraisal, full blown appraisal, where you do some work in the office, you have to go inspect the property, measure the property, take photos and drive the comparables and all that. So so the whole process, it's mostly labor intensive, and a little bit on the computer, maybe 20%. On a computer 80% You have to drive. Yep. And then there is the desktop appraisal, where everything is done from the computer. So when it's a desktop appraisal 100% of your work is done at the computer, right? And I think in July, that's when the desktop appraisals kick in, meaning that Fannie and Freddie will accept desktop appraisals, instead of full blown appraisals for for most of the transactions like purchase transactions and refinances. That is a complete game changer for for a company like Voxer that has the technology that makes you faster, because if you're an appraiser, and 80% of your work is spent driving to the property, you don't really have that much incentive to improve your technology. But if if you have to do and crank out desktop appraisals, and 100% of your work is on a computer, and now you have the possibility of doing 10 appraisals per day. Guess what, you better have this technology or you're going to fall behind. That's right. That's so so again, it's this trend, I know where the trend is going because I've seen it. And you also have this other trend that was born out of 2008 2009 financial crisis. When I was an appraiser, there was no AMC, there was no appraisal management companies, you had a mortgage broker or ordering the appraisal. And then you know, they blamed everything on you know, on mortgage brokers and appraisers. So then they created AMC to be in the in the middle of it. So So AMCs wrote that to trend from 2008 2009 to now. And now they're going to they're going to become obsolete because now, united, wholesale, more

Unknown Speaker  30:00  
Get in order to show them, we're not going to use AMCs we're gonna go appraisal direct. So now, who has the platform to do appraisal direct?

Unknown Speaker  30:10  
That's right. So so it's like this company is like in the middle of all these shifts happening within within a real estate space. And, and very few people are paying attention. And even the people in the real estate space, I mean, real estate space has so many niches, you have the title, you have the appraisal, you have the brokerage, you don't have a lot of people that know a lot about every single thing, they know their particular thing. And so when you can kind of see the changes that are happening within and how they interrelate to each other, and then if you have a company that can provide a solution to this, I mean, that in that could be life changing. Because, you know, I mean, if you're involved in an entity that provides such a massive solution, and you don't overpay for that entity, and you're an owner, I mean, it can change your life, because the result, the returns can be astronomical. Yep, that's exactly right. So Well, listen, we're running out of time here. And I want to we've got a couple of questions we ask every guest that comes on the show. And I'd like to ask what is the best book that you have ever read or are currently reading?

Unknown Speaker  31:20  
Why are we so clueless about the stock market?

Unknown Speaker  31:24  
I wrote in 2009. Awesome, that's your book. That's my book. I'm going to plug myself in, you know, shamelessly, there you go. Now, that's great. I mean, you know, anybody that can learn about it, even if you're just learning reading it to learn about financial matters in general, I mean, check it out. There you go. Well, one more time with the title.

Unknown Speaker  31:47  
Why are we so clueless about the stock market? There you go, there you go, guys, listeners, go run, grab it, get it? Read it. Tell us leave a review? What is the dream vacation that you have either taken or hope to take?

Unknown Speaker  32:04  
You know, I don't take vacations. You know, I see so many people taking vacations because they want to escape their miserable lives.

Unknown Speaker  32:13  
My life is not miserable. I don't need to take vacations every day is a vacation for me. Okay, awesome. Well, that's great. Well run out there and grab that book. And tell, let's tell the listeners, how can they reach out and get in touch with you? I mean, obviously, do you want to send them to maybe a website to get to get your book or find your book or where they can buy your book, our I'm gonna, I'm gonna make them work. I'm gonna make them work. I'm gonna have them take my impossible to pronounce name, they can take my name, put it into YouTube, and you'll find my YouTube channel. Follow me subscribe. And that's how you know our relationship can start. But you got to do that you got to do the work, you got to take my impossible name and look for it. All right, well, the impossible name is in the show notes. As well as we will probably stick a link to the YouTube channel in there just so we can make our listeners or so we can make it a little easier for people to connect to you. So well listen, I want to thank you for being on the show today. Thanks for taking the time. I know everybody's busy running around. And anything we can always learn about stock market or you know, ways of alternative investing, which you touched on with the micro cap stocks and so on. So thanks again for being on the show. Thanks for having me. Awesome.

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