June 27, 2022

The Journey of Real Estate with Joe Killinger

“Nothing worth it comes easy.”     In this episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk with Joe Killinger, founder of joekillinger. co. Joe began selling shoes during the day and worked for a telemarketing company at night before finding real...

“Nothing worth it comes easy.”



In this episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk with Joe Killinger, founder of joekillinger. co. Joe began selling shoes during the day and worked for a telemarketing company at night before finding real estate. Thirty years have passed since then, and he has been active in different roles in the real estate industry like an agent, investor, syndicator, founder, and operator of companies and properties he invests in. He has been responsible for the sale of and directly involved in marketing over 5,900 assets, resulting in closed transactions totaling over 900 million dollars all over the U.S.



In this episode, we discuss:

  • The California market
  • The real estate market conditions today
  • Years of real estate experience and what steps to take choices to avoid


Tune in on this episode to learn more about the road to real estate success!


Find your flow,

Casey Brown


Resources mentioned in this podcast:


Casey Brown  0:00  
When it gets over stay on because we gotta wait till it uploads. Okay. Very cool. Hey there and welcome to today's episode of cash flow daily real estate investing podcast and YouTube channel. I am here today with Joe Kissinger and Joe Kissinger is coming to us by way of was it Los Angeles, we're out in California was in Los Angeles. So he's coming to us from the very lively area of Los Angeles, California. And we are looking forward to hearing what he has to tell us. We were chatting a little bit before the show, we compared our agricultural backgrounds. And it seems as though Joe gave up the small town country life, the town of 281 people to move to Los Angeles, which we will have Joe's brain check. So we're gonna see what he was thinking. And we're gonna go from there. And I'm just kidding, Joe. How are you today, sir?

Unknown Speaker  1:02  
Hey, no complaints. Thank you. I can't believe you do this every day. It's a full time gig.

Casey Brown  1:07  
Yeah, man. day, every day every day. It's, it's, you know, it's one of those deals where I dove in and I was like, Hey, let's do this. But then when I started seeing people were listening and everybody was just it was like, almost people were like thirsting for more. So I was like, man, just forget it. Let's go. I mean, if you're gonna do it once a week, you might as well do it every day and see what happens. So, yeah, yeah, here. Yes, it's, it's, it's a ton of work. Thank you. I've gotten but now I'm gonna I'm not even going to reasonably act like I'm doing it by myself. Because I've got a wonderful team of folks behind me that that take care of everything from editing, to the YouTube video placement to I mean, basically everything follow up emails, and so on. So Well, Joe, why don't we start tell us a little bit about yourself and where you come from? And then obviously, what, what got you from small town, Nebraska to big city of LA?

Unknown Speaker  2:10  
Well, it was I'll start with getting from Nebraska to La it was kind of when I left in the 80s and neighbors went off and I did I grew up on a working farm. can of tuna 81. People. A lot of relatives of course, dating pool was pretty damn shallow there as you can imagine. Yeah. But went to university, Nebraska and eventually ran out of money. And Oscar Rossi. Oh, yeah, we're still working on getting that full. football football program put back together. We're having kind of a mess there. But we'll get there.

Casey Brown  2:45  
Man, man. Yeah, back in the 90s. When I was growing up in Colorado, man, the buffaloes, the CU buffs man never. It was like it was always robbery. And man, Nebraska was just like, they were like, today's version of Alabama. I mean, they were just I don't know if they were that bad. But I mean, I mean,

Unknown Speaker  3:06  
so yeah, I don't think they would. But, you know, it's, it's amazing how it, you know, we go through cycles, hopefully they'll make it back. And, but it was, it was a long road. It was fun to be there. I only got to spend about a year and a half in college and my family ended up cleaning up losing the farm, and which was kind of good and bad, right. So my dad was real estate auctioneer. They said, here's what your ASC s office called said, here's what your taxes and mortgage and all that's worth my dad said, No, it's not worth all of that. And they ended up selling it and they got the number that he was looking at. So then it started giving starting to give him work, but some worked out well for him. But for me, I was done at the University of Nebraska and there were just no jobs. So I just got out my car started driving West. And I finally ended up in California down in San Clemente area. That's where I saw the ocean and I'm like, Well, I guess this is where we're going to start and started selling shoes at stripe right shoe store in that afternoon and telemarketing and evening, which I was not very good at both. Oh, wow.

Casey Brown  4:13  
Man, that's, that's almost that's a little bit like the the Nike guy's story. I mean, he was just little here little there until he finally got things put together. So and you said you said San Clemente? Is that what you said? What was that? Where were where was that at?

Unknown Speaker  4:33  
Oh, San Clemente in Southern California. Gotcha,

Casey Brown  4:37  
man. But I mean, you know, in that it always seems to me like opportunity either exists in mass in California or it's not existed at all, is that that's an outsider looking in. But Is that Is that accurate? I mean, what is the

Unknown Speaker  4:53  
there's opportunity? I mean, when I came here, and I think it's probably what helped me was at MIT West work ethic, right? Is I came here I had $1,200 to move out here, I got to Flagstaff, my car broke down. Somehow it cost me $600, which I look back now. And if I can go back and find those guys, you know, here I am a 20 year old kid, I didn't know any better coming from small town, I trusted everybody, and they got half my money. And, you know, it probably could have been done for 100 bucks. But so I'd start at 600 bucks. And so you know, when you start with nothing, you know, you really learn to that you have to scrap and fight and I see in California, the people that come out here with that mentality tend to do well, you know, and I think that's across our country, right? If you have the right mentality, you can go out and make it now. Is it harder here? Yes, because taxes, rent, it's all more expensive. But, you know, it's, you've got to fight, you know, nothing comes easy, nothing. Nothing worth it comes easy.

Casey Brown  6:00  
Now, so a couple of different things, taking us into the California market. Now. I obviously, the class, the people that I kind of run with, I guess, if you will, this real estate investor, slash capital raiser. People are like, the, the big idea here is that you either invest in California, or you invest everywhere else, you don't invest in both. And I think that that's widely the thought process and law context as to why is California is one of those markets where like, I am speaking of it broadly, obviously, the whole state. Um, but California, to me, from the outside looking in is one of those places where you have to, like, be ingrained in everything, you have to have such a knowledge of everything that's going on. Because things change fast, things change, and you never know it. And then all of a sudden, you're out of compliance with this, that or the other rent, controls and so on, you can get bit by that if you just dive into a neighborhood. So it seems to me like the wealth of knowledge you have to have for California is almost equivalent to the wealth of knowledge, you have to have to invest in the other 48 states. And I'm saying 48 Because I think New York is much the same way. So California and New York are widely is like like we're growing like, Hey, y'all stay over there. Okay. The second question about California? And that was a question because that is, how do you all? Do you kind of agree with me on that is the first question, I guess,

Unknown Speaker  7:44  
saying, if you can make it here, you can make it anywhere. Wow, that's a joke. But I mean, really, politically, you know, as an investor, if you're in multifamily. You know, you better know the communities you're getting into, you better know what's going on what guidelines what restrictions, you know, rent controls, it can be tough, but you know, is is this will be my, if we go into a recession, this will be my third or fourth. We got the gray hair, I will tell you, it's been a few it's been a few of them. We dipped in but California has always been the last in and the first out. Yeah, and I think our biggest dip. And when I say this, I'm talking about LA proper, not not Inland Empire, not, you know, Central Valley, everything but la proper. I think our biggest was it was under 10%, that we totally went down. And so we don't get hit that hard. But a lot of investors, you're right, they do invest, either. Sometimes they invest here for the appreciation game, and then they go invest in other places. Now, you know, if you've been owning industrial out here in California, the last several years, you've you've been printing money, right? And, you know, they say that that's not going to slow down anytime soon. But I'm not sure I believe all of that. But I think you know, it can't keep going up like this. Sure. You know, just it's got to stabilize, but But yeah, you need if you're going to invest in communities around California, New York, even Florida's getting there. I mean, Florida is there's a lot going on in those areas, and you're seeing things change, and you've got investors looking there. And it just really, but I think if and I keep telling our agents, I'm in partner and commercial brokers that are national out here in Los Angeles, and we always tell our agents, you know, the last 10 years, if you've been in real estate, and you haven't made a bunch of money, then you better look at your fundamentals because you're not doing something right. So I think going forward, you're gonna see more fundamentals being a key. A key to people's success.

Casey Brown  9:46  
Sure, sure. And that's Yeah, and that's, that's with any business and I think that I think a lot of people well, and one thing that I've said about the real estate business in general for years, the bear You're still not the real estate business as a whole real being a real estate agent. Unfortunately, the barriers to entry are relatively low. And people come into it with a part time mentality. And, unfortunately, that part time mentality, either you really need to go into the full time mentality, in hopes of having enough work the first couple of years to be part time. Where instead, people go into they're like, Oh, what if I sell one house a year? Well, I say selling one house a year is great, but someone else years, pretty tough. I mean, especially if you're only going to plan on selling one house per year, and then you have to turn right around and hand that to you give a percentage to your broker percentage to here, then you got to turn on pay all this laundry list of fees. And so you've done all this work for nothing? Yeah. Instead of saying, Hey, how about I go in there, and also 100 houses a year, and then I really make something of myself and do it, instead of just saying, hey, the bare minimum mindset is something I've never been able to get on board with. Now. And you

Unknown Speaker  11:07  
know, we tell our agents, and when we're recruiting people, I scare a lot of them away, right? I said, Okay, your first 18 to 24 months, you're gonna need to see me every day, 18 to 24 months, this is why this differ coming in, they have no experience, right? So they're new, they want mentoring, they want classes, they were all the tools 18 to 24 months, 830 to 530, I better see almost every day, understand if something comes up, but you're gonna need to be doing cold calling sphere of influence, email program blocked, all I listed all out. And I said, this is what you really have to do, because 10% of the agents do 90% of the business. And if you're going to you want to make really good money in this industry, then is what you have to do the first 18 to 24 months. But then after that, you'll have a base, you can be set. But you know, how many of them return like, oh,

Casey Brown  11:55  
this well. But now that that also helps you a little bit too, because then you kind of reads it kind of weeds, those people that really just are kind of like, hey, you know, I'm on the fence about being in real estate or not. So the other question I have about California, is, and of course, it's, it's a lot of times, you hear about a few of the stories and and it's amazing to me how a few of anything becomes a lot in our mind. Like, especially with like social media, people are like, Oh, well, everybody doesn't like this for now. They really like the 15 people that you follow on your timeline don't like this. And that's algorithm based. So what I'm getting at is, is it it's apparent that there has been a mass exodus of California in general. Now, I say that, again, because like, there's like 25 people I know of who have relocated or been a relocation of some from somebody that located out of California, like, especially to Colorado, and then on East, there's been a lot of people who are like, Man, I'm just sick of the whatever, whether it be the water, from the water to the taxes to the, to the whatever. Um, is that really the case? And if so, what does the real estate market there look like right now?

Unknown Speaker  13:15  
It's still strong. I did see we just had an office meeting a little bit ago. And I saw the this Sunday of all Sundays, which following on Memorial Day weekend was a little surprising. But open houses, we hadn't seen open houses, and then I went looked at the pricing on it. And it's too high. I mean, the home isn't going to sell. So it's people just kind of fishing thinking that you know, the market is at its peak, let me get this sold. Sure. If I can find one that will buy it then great. If not, you know, and the agents thinking, well, maybe I'll get some buyers out of it. But yep, you know, but yet, as far as on the commercial real estate side, we've got more investors looking for inventory, there's so much cash, looking for looking for them. And, you know, I to see those numbers and you know, I invest in other parts of the country. So I'm looking at the numbers of you know, people moving out what we haven't seen, unless you really could do a deep dive is the number of people moving into California. And that's pretty surprising. The numbers are still pretty strong. Wow.

Casey Brown  14:19  
So you're thinking there's there's some there's at least a percentage of the population that's leaving that's being re replaced by somebody that's coming.

Unknown Speaker  14:29  
Yeah, yeah. I don't remember what those I hadn't looked at it for a while, Casey, so I can't quote those numbers for you. But I was surprised. I'm like, Oh, this isn't as bad as I thought that I mean, if we were more a little more gentle to some of these bigger companies. I think we're gonna see a few other companies probably pack up and leave. I mean, if muskets Twitter. I don't doubt that he'll move out of San Francisco. Sure, sure. There'll be there'll be a lot of square feet and some of the cities have downtown's that are pretty tough. che, you know, la being one of them San Francisco, I think San Diego is doing okay. But, you know, I just think we could be doing a lot more for communities. And but I think, you know, we're got a pretty good number of people still moving in.

Casey Brown  15:13  
Sure. Sure. Well, and you know, and again, I've been there. So I've seen from Highway 101, up in the hills back overlooking Los Angeles. Yeah. And a lot of people. Again, the small town people tend to forget that like, as far as you can see across there, and you're still only seeing a percentage of what's really there. Like, it's so massive. And it's so it's farther than the eye can see wider than I can see in every direction. And so it's so and I'm specifically talking about LA, and that's just la that doesn't even go into what other suburbs and whatever bleed into that. But it's and I guess for the small town, person in me, it's just difficult to really understand what what goes on there. And the climate of any economics that's involved. I mean, well, you know, just simply what it takes from just for instance, a water supply or a sewage capabilities to be able to handle that kind of that kind of stuff. So

Unknown Speaker  16:31  
one thing that I didn't understand, and I've, we have a nonprofit. And so I took the kids in our program down, see the sanitation, were they all the waste goes to in Manhattan Beach. It's amazing. The technology, they've gotten quays, so it's something to say.

Casey Brown  16:50  
Well, I mean, yeah, and they have to otherwise it really wouldn't take wouldn't take long to be inundated by that. And so well, with all that being said, and we've kind of got an idea of what what goes on there. I'd like to come on maybe transform this discussion into real estate investing and and, you know, some capital raising kind of stuff, because that's, that's really a lot of what we do is as as a fund of funds, we're an investor relations, and you said you invest in some other parts of the country. So what tell us a little bit about your real estate investing background and then kind of what that looks like now?

Unknown Speaker  17:27  
Sure. Well, we started I my best deal was my first deal. And my second one was my it was my worst one. So first one, I bought a little 10 unit building in not such a great area Hunterdon I think we paid just around 200,000 for it. 200 or 250. Okay, so 20,000 unit. Yeah, way back when right? This is 20 some years ago. So home run, right went in, regenerate it, fix it all up just on our own, bought our second building in Koreatown, six unit with a three story walk up. Never buy a three story walk up in Hispanic community. I know that he could not it was hard to keep that top floor full because of you don't want to carry groceries up that many steps and minutes. And it was just it was a tough one. It's worth a boatload now. But man we got out of that one broke, even actually made a little bit but not much. So we started doing those deals on our own. But then we came up with this idea of how to go into low income communities coming from a small town. So I had this idea if we took a big enough building, we could create a resource room where kids could be tutored after school because the our first investment kids would come home, parents would be at work, they'd be locked out gang members in the area. They were kind of indoctrinating these kids. And I thought it's a shame that they didn't go have a situation like I had in small town America to get tutored right or someplace that they can go there's kind of a safe place. So we ended up creating that as a company we called learning centers. And that company allowed us to go into these lower income communities. We bought a 25 units, and then three other buildings totaling 25. They're all right next to each other. And an area that was terrible. It was it was called Baldwin village. It's an early shot training. They actually some of the buildings in training, there are buildings we didn't know. Terrible area. And then we created that resource room where the kids could come and there's a computers with educational software and mini library. And that's where four nights a week the kids can come in there and get tutored, we reached out to the local schools and said have you know as a teacher if you want to get paid for tutoring, we can either give you a discount and rent for tutoring every night or you can we can give you a fee and some chose to live in the building. Some chose to stay where they had a home with her choice. But man that was oh, and then we carried it a nonprofit called education advantage foundation around that resource room so you can get all the stuff donated. And it worked very, very well. So then we started syndicating some of those. And I started off syndicating. And, you know, we just sold those buildings. I think we owned them for like, nine years. And we sold them about six years ago. And so it was it was a home run. And so mostly we have done either ourselves or syndications. We're going to probably first quarter of next year, start going out and syndicating and buying some triple net product around the country. My business partner is our CEO George Pino, CEO of our commercial brokerage company, he does almost exclusively, triple net Qs. A lot of QSR deals around the country. So we'll probably start raising some money then and then start going after them. It'll be authentications again.

Casey Brown  20:57  
Awesome. Now let's talk a little bit. I know there's there's a, there's some discussion around of course, everybody's a lot of people doing 506 B right now. Some people are leaning into 506 C and A we do 506 C because we want to be able to advertise and deal with accredited investors. But with that with your syndications. What do you mainly do just to start do you do a B or C? A, B? B, okay, so, so it's people you have a previous relationship with and people maybe that we're past clients or something like that in the real estate on your real estate business side?

Unknown Speaker  21:36  
Yep. Yep, that's exactly it. So it's all and the way we're gonna set it up as far agents, our agents can invest alongside of us, we I think every real estate agent, so don't real estate, right? And so we want to create it to where they can invest, and then maybe some of their clients.

Casey Brown  21:51  
Awesome. Awesome. I mean, anyone that's, that's a good thing. And I'll be honest with you, I wish that I would have had somebody that had taught me all about this stuff. When I when I first started, I mean, you know, like, I was telling somebody just earlier today that, you know, it's a shame I was in the business for 15. I've been in the business 15 years, I was in the business 13 years before I ever really started investigating how some of these bigger deals are taken down. And it just, it's like, it popped in my head. I was like, whoa, wait a minute, this is how it works. So I'm so fortunate now

Unknown Speaker  22:23  
the guys like you were out there doing these podcasts? Because it was it's key. It's, I think, if you really want to learn it, I've got guys like, yeah, they're putting this content out. It's key to your, your success.

Casey Brown  22:35  
Sure, sure. Yeah. And then this just learning about what, what it is. And the fact of the matter is, is you've got a lot of people that are like, like there's a certain percentage of the general population that's like, Nope, I'm not investing in real estate. To change light bulbs on toilet, kill the termites deal with tenants. And so and then when you're like, Well, wait a minute, I can enjoy the 8% pref or 9%, prayer for temperature and pref preferred return rather, and, and not have to do any of that. And my 50,000 suddenly grew into 55 last year or my 100 grand 110,000 Last year, plus the appreciation on the property. So you know, it's one of those things that when you dive into it, and you really start figuring it out, it does nothing but make sense. And you know, in the shame is that it's been reserved for institutional players for so long, that a lot of a lot of that information was safeguarded to a certain degree, to keep people from coming coming in and competing on some of these bigger, three 400 unit complexes. Yeah, no,

Unknown Speaker  23:40  
I think it's, there's a lot of opportunity. It's finding the right operator, though, I don't know how you guys, you know, what you're talking about with it, finding the operators. But that's the key, if you can find a good operator and just build a relationship with them and keep investing with them.

Casey Brown  23:56  
We'll see. And that's what that's what we do. As far as our fund of funds goes, we specialize. So we go out I have a I have a process that's probably as long as from where I'm sitting in Nashville to where you're sitting in LA, line by line of things that we go through the question we love, I'm just kidding, obviously, about that. It's probably 100 to 125 items long of things that we look for, and choose certain degrees of when we're vetting an operator to be a member of our fund. And we have a lot of times people you know, there's some things that are nuanced things to me, like things that I want to say personally, like if I was investing, and then there's some things that are just like, you know, if we didn't check, we shouldn't even be in the business basically. So you know, yeah, the operators are the big that's that's the big issue. Mainly because it's not even necessarily an operator not knowing how to operate a rental property, but it's an operator knowing how to underwriting initially, and how to and the things to look at. And then, and a lot of times it's not actually based on the real figures, the real figures or the real figures, but it's it's the variance in those that they calculate in like maybe they say, Hey, we're going to, we're going to draw our management fees down, well, you may get into the deal and realize, man, this is why the management fees are so high. And so a lot of that is the reason, you know, that's, that's those are big to us. So anyway, what tell us a little bit about you said, you're going to look at some Triple Net Properties across the country. So obviously, you are versed and some of your some of your multifamily deals have they been outside of California, like anywhere else,

Unknown Speaker  25:44  
we were strictly multifamily in Dallas, Texas. So we were in some other parts of Texas, but mostly Dallas. Sure. And so about, I think it was last September. And we had these, this group of our last group of buildings was 73 units sitting on just under About a little over an acre. So we're going to demo it and add about 3% more units, and rebuild, right. Well, we got this offer that came in and you know, this guy reached out and he just said, Listen, this is the number I'm willing to pay. We looked at it. So we could have done all this work with the risk of demoing and retesting and all that have been about the same number. So Oh, wow, risk. So we're like, you know what, good luck. It's all yours.

Unknown Speaker  26:31  
Yeah, there you go. Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  26:33  
we bought some triple net. Now, here's a good lesson is that guy was not only the syndicator. But he was also the contractor. So he's paying himself to do work. And, you know, so he was, I don't know what they've done with the building. So that's something you want to watch out for, too. But he might be doing a great job. I don't know. I'm not saying. But that's kind of you gotta watch out for because I didn't catch that until we're almost done. But he's got some big investors behind it. But we then took that money and bought a Chase Bank in Dallas, that was going dark, there's eight and there was eight and a half years left on the lease when we bought it dark within two months after he got it. But it's on a prime, lots signalized intersection. And so our goal is to go in, we'll find a tenant that wants to be there. And then we'll go to Chase Bank, negotiate the lease out, get a couple million bucks from them, take that money, rebuild the property of a great tenant, add a couple million bucks to that asset and, and either hold or move on. But then we bought a Jack in the Box in Allen, Texas, one of the fastest growing cities in the nation. And very unique property has its own fireplace, and a fireplace inside now got a big patio. Very cool place. And yeah, so those we are looking at some other smaller properties we're still going to acquire back there.

Casey Brown  27:48  
Yeah, yeah. And I tell you, we've had, we've had quite education on Triple Net on this show, just here in the last month or six weeks. I mean, people are really leaning into that stuff and telling us, you know, giving us some really good feedback on things to look at. But I want to point out one thing that I want to ask you a couple of questions that we ask every guest that comes on the show. But the one thing that I think was the most important takeaway from this episode, and I guarantee you you don't, you didn't even realize you said it. And it was you never want to buy a property with a third floor. And with no, manual floor, that is Yeah, manual steps. And I don't necessarily bring that up. Because specifically, I'm telling people don't buy a property with three floors, where there's only steps, I'm telling people to look at the little things, okay? Envision yourself living in that property. And what it's going to take for you to do your daily activities. Because the thing is, is is that third floor creates just enough resistance. And you have just enough turnover up there to make the asset potentially, a drain a drain on you mentally, financially, more, whatever. And so you need to that's why I say I don't say don't go out and buy a building three voices or maybe a situation where it really works well. And it's great. I'm just simply saying pay attention to little things because and you're like hey six units for this price well, you're may only be getting four or you may only be getting four and a half units for that price because you've got three quarters upstairs that you never get ran out of because you can't render you can't find it or you can't this you can't that and so I guess I'm just saying Watch out for the little things. Question. Go ahead what

Unknown Speaker  29:41  
I was gonna say one thing we did to that is another cautionary tale is we really fix those two top four units up nicely. And then the tenants from the 40 units down below came okay hey, we want this to and we were just trying to really fix up nice to get renters in there

Unknown Speaker  29:58  
wow. Never

Unknown Speaker  30:00  
stopped and like, oh my god, you know, I said, Hey, you want to move upstairs? Go ahead. But yeah, you don't want to get yourself. Alright, what's your question?

Casey Brown  30:07  
First question, what is the best book that you've recently read? or are currently reading?

Unknown Speaker  30:13  
Starting at the end? Yeah, start at the end. Yeah. It's actually if you go into Joe Calendar dot CEO, I've got a bunch of books for people that you're, you're probably you know, what gets suggested reading from real estate agents and investors. It's on there. And that's my favorite one that's on there.

Casey Brown  30:30  
Cool. Good deal. All right. What is a dream? What is the dream vacation you hope to take or have taken?

Unknown Speaker  30:40  
I want to dream coming is I want to go to Spain on motorcycle and just go from every small town and just eat all the food for like, I think that would be just get a bike and just cruise I think that would be maybe even Italy, Spain or Italy.

Casey Brown  30:58  
That's awesome, man. Yeah. It's those little towns across there. It's it's such an interesting.

Unknown Speaker  31:06  
I mean, yeah, Stanley Tucci has a new show on CNN. It's traveling, or seeing all of Italy or something like that. And it looks amazing.

Casey Brown  31:17  
Yeah, that's great. My wife and I went from Milan, to Oh, good, Lord, I came. While we ended up, we ended up in Rome. And I'm here a couple of months ago, just by train. And it was it was on believable

Unknown Speaker  31:39  
food. Yes, it looks so. I mean, it was one I record his show to TV shows. And just now they did have a show on last night where they're having donkey and I'm like, I don't think I'll be having any donkey anytime soon. I

Casey Brown  31:55  
think I'll pass. Well, all right. Well, Joe, listen, how can the listeners reach out and get in touch with you if there's something they that they heard that resonated with them or

Unknown Speaker  32:05  
website right here behind, you could check that out, you can call me direct 310-943-8542. And happy just to talk to people and, you know, been an investor and an agent for a lot of years. And matter of fact, if you check out the website, you know, there's a lot a lot of information there for agents and investors, investors.

Casey Brown  32:24  
Awesome. Well, Joe, thank you so much for taking time out of your day to be with us today. We really do appreciate it. And we hope that the listeners got something out of that if nothing else, they know not to buy that three storey building with two units on top. So, all right, sir. Well, thank you and I hope everybody has a wonderful rest of the day.

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