April 27, 2022

The Benefit of Infinite Banking with Harper Jones

The Benefit of Infinite Banking with Harper Jones

When money exchanges…for goods or services…or buying investments and assets, money's flowing! We sit down with Harper Jones from Create Tailwind in the thirteenth episode of Cash Flow Pro. As a wealth strategist, Harper teaches people how to take...

When money exchanges…for goods or services…or buying investments and assets, money's flowing!

We sit down with Harper Jones from Create Tailwind in the thirteenth episode of Cash Flow Pro. As a wealth strategist, Harper teaches people how to take control of their money flow and how IBC or the Infinite Banking Concept can help them do just that. Today, Harper will tell us how we can do it too.

Create Tailwind was originally a full-service financial firm that later pivoted to helping others take control of their own money without the need for brokers or financial planners. Their inspiration for this change was the book, How to Become Your Banker by R. Nelson Nash. With this new direction, Harper and the team at Create Tailwind show us how to pursue financial independence. 


In this episode, we discuss:

  • The process of infinite banking (IBC) - what it is and how it works.
  • How to use insurance contracts with a mutual insurance company as a vehicle that allows you to function as a bank.
  • The benefits and cycle of IBC

If you are interested in learning how to leverage your wealth so that you and your family can profit for generations, make sure to tune in so you can reap the benefits IBC has to offer.

Find your flow:

Casey Brown

Resources mentioned in this podcast:


Casey Brown  0:06  
Hey there, and welcome to the cash flow pro podcast and channel. We're glad you've joined us today. And today we're here with Harper Jones with create tailwind. Harper. How're you doing today?

Unknown Speaker  0:19  
Man, I'm doing well case. I really liked that name cash flow Pro.

Casey Brown  0:24  
That's right. We're trying to try to teach people how to be professional and get their cash flow, right? So we signed emails with find your flow. Well, thank you so much for spending time with us today and spending time with our listeners so that we can get some education on what you do and what you bring to the table as far as real estate and real estate investing. Now we were chatting a little bit before we hit record. And you were telling me about create tailwind? And I think there was a like I said, there was a term in there where we both knew what each word was, but maybe together we don't and it's infinite banking. Of course, we all know what Infinite is. We all know what banking is. But what the two together create, and what type of what type of stuff that that has to do with it. And I think you had mentioned also insurance. So man, let's let's just kind of start at the beginning or start there and tell and start by telling us what infinite banking is and then work your way back. But we all like to hear your story, what it is and how you got to where you are today.

Unknown Speaker  1:28  
Yep, sounds good. I love talking about something I'm very passionate about. right alongside, you know, real estate. Sure. Game, as you're saying. And I think in the past couple years, it's really become more of this, maybe even a hype word, or people try to put spins and put those words together. But the true wording would be infinite banking concept. So the third word in their concept is, hey, it's a concept. It's something that's that's conceptual, right. And all three of those words, mean something, right, Nelson Nash, who was the Godfather, and really discovered Infinite Banking and wrote a book on it called becoming your own banker, which anyone listening, always have an offer on the table, I'll mail you a free copy of becoming your own banker, just email me at Harper at create tailwind calm, and we can put that in the show notes too. But Infinite Banking concept is a process. It's not a product, right? So just like banking, in the traditional sense. So let's think of a Wells Fargo or Bank of America, or your community bank, you know, they're gonna take deposits right from outsiders, and they're gonna have that, and then they're gonna loan that out with interest. Right? And they're running a business. And that's a process. That's, that's not product, right? And when you're thinking about it, it's really about who is controlling the banking function in your life, right? Because when money exchanges, and for good goods or services, or buying investments and assets, well, money's flowing, right? And really, that's the process of banking. And it's really how much of that process do you control? So when money is flowing in and out of your life, right, you're going to be depositing it at someone else's bank, right? Where your customer so there's, there's two players in play here, right? Customer, you got the owner, the bank, and as money's flown and out of your life, it's going to be sitting and checking and savings accounts, right? Now, we want to put that to work, right? So you and me both like real estate, and it's a great investment vehicle, right? So we're gonna have money that sits in our accounts like checking and savings account, like I was saying before we deploy it into those assets, because you may not have a deal 24/7, you want to wait for that right deal. So we make sure that we're hitting our criteria with those numbers, right. And also, money will be flowing in and out of your bank accounts with escrow property taxes, insurance bills, personal taxes, reserve accounts, whatever that may be. And this is talking more business, but you also personally will have a lot of funds coming in and out, right? So what happens is that the customer of a bank, we get interest on our deposits, right? But we watch interest in today's environment, especially with the banks, but he's sitting there, you know, money has to flow, right? And you see it just sitting in the bank account, right when you open it up, but the bank itself takes those deposits because it's a liability form. They owe you interest, right. It's in create loans. And those loans are what are assets to them, and they get paid back with interest, right? The money's flowing back to them. And they're making the difference, right? And guess who gets the profits and dividends? That's going to be the owner of the bank, which is people at situation Bank of America Wells Fargo. I may have been a little long winded, but I tried to go into I don't know it

Casey Brown  4:57  
makes sense. I mean, it's it's exactly the The concept of banking, I think trips a lot of people up. And I think, much like the syndication world are much like any other world, the the barriers to entry seem so, so high. Like just for instance, just regulatory things. I mean, just simply, like if you take the average person, like just on a regular syndication deal, and you take the average person and start saying, Hey, you got to file your blue sky law notices, they're like, Huh, well, yeah, right. Which, yeah, and that's, that's a, that's a small factor that factors into things that have to be done. But there again, it's a it's a mind thinking, Hey, man, there's, if that's just one little thing, how many other millions of little things is there that we have to accomplish? So I think this whole concept definitely trips people up from the standpoint of saying, Okay, I see where he's going. I know, I know what a bank is. But now tell me how I can be my own. So go ahead.

Unknown Speaker  5:59  
Yeah. And I think that's great that you chimed in and bring up that point? Because you're like, Well, why couldn't I be down in the bank? Why can I control more of that flow and get those profits in dividends? Right, and be the owner myself? Well, did traditionally do it and start up a brick and mortar bank, it's gonna require a lot of capital, a lot of time, a lot of connections, and still, you're not guaranteed at that point, right? So what we want to do is, hey, is there a way that we can plug in to a system just like that, and be our own bank? Well, you could use a money that's already going in your checking or savings account in to a product called a specially designed whole life insurance contract with a mutual company, right. So when you think about Infinite Banking, that kind of recap, there's the banking functions being controlling your life, and money is gonna be flowing and out of your life, and then out of your banking account, right? So we want to do is we want to sit those funds in our own bank, and a way that we can start, it's a start up one of these insurance contracts, right with a mutual insurance company. And when you do that, you're really plugging into the grid are plugging into the banking system, because with the mutual insurance company, they have something called participating dividend paying Whole Life policies. And when you start up one, you actually are now part owner and the insurance company, right. So mutual insurance company operates just like a bank, where they're taking on the deposits for the premiums, and they go put that to work in various investments. And you're going to be right, which is great, there's going to be a higher interest in what that bank is paying you. But you're also going to be owned the bank. So that means you're going to profits and dividends on top of your guaranteed interest that's going to do you in a manner right? As you keep flowing your dollars through over the years and your money pool is growing, the more the dollars, you're recapturing in your life, that are now being put to work within the Mutual Insurance Company, and then you're going to be getting money kick back to you. So the guaranteed interest would be tax free. And one of these vehicles really tax deferred, but if done correctly, is tax free your whole life. And then that dividend that they kick in at the end of the year, which technically is not guaranteed, but these companies have paid them for over 100 years, would be kicked back to you also tax free. And what we do is have that automatically reinvest back in the pool of money. And what happens is an ever increasing pool of money that's growing uninterrupted, right, all tax free. And what's cool about this, and this where you got to separate it, that itself is not infinite banking, that's just flowing your money into a more efficient vehicle that you control. And that you know, you're part owner of right? Yep. All right. You got to compare that to what are you doing right now, with your money sitting in a checking or savings account, you're not getting these benefits we're discussing, right? And we're not focused on the death benefit. But these contracts will carry a substantial death benefit that also pass to your business partners, or family, or help for estate taxes, all tax free, also, if done properly, right. So it's a great way to pass the legacy and pass generational wealth, right. So that is the vehicle right? And you want to design it in a proper manner to get those benefits. Now, infinite banking is a process, right? And you could practice Infinite Banking with a home equity line of credit, you could practice it with a savings account. You could practice it with a brokerage account, whatever that may be, because infinite banking is a process is not tied specifically to a product or a platform, right? Okay. Or example, the insurance contract here. It just so happens to be the best platform or vehicle or product to practice Infinite Banking with right. So what we're going to do is start banking with our policy. So if you think about it, think of like a ledger. We're on the right side. It's like credits and debits, assets and liabilities like kind of visualize it. And let's see on the left side, we have our money pool, what we're doing is we're flowing our dollars into our own money pool, we control getting the benefits of this vehicle. And then we're able to borrow against our policy, virtually 100% of it without removing the dollars from our policy. So the growth is all still continuing, nothing has changed, we get a borrow against it, use those funds over here, which are assets and behavior, say we're buying real estate, we're not changing what we're doing. We're merely diverting our funds slightly differently, so that we get to build two assets instead of one. And I can continue talking, but I want to take a pause to let you chime in.

Casey Brown  10:39  
I'm just, honestly, I'm just kind of sitting here. Like, is this real? It's it's one of those things. So. So I'm trying to, I'm trying to connect, and maybe, and this could be me. And typically, I've found over the years that if I if I'm thinking something, a lot of times it's it's likely what everybody else is wondering or thinking. So these like this, let's let's go back to the life insurance contract the contract with the insurance company. Now, this contract is signed by the insurance company and by se myself. Mm hmm. Correct? Correct. Okay, now, that contract is for who's whose life? Is that contract? Dependent on the pool? Of of insured of insurance? Or is that contract? Like tied to me? I mean, what who has that specific contract tied to? And then, obviously, the insurance company's gonna use it to pay a benefit or whatever it is, but they're also collecting premiums from everybody else. All right.

Unknown Speaker  11:55  
Yeah, so Okay, so let's, these are good questions. And this gets into a little bit more the weeds, but they're great questions.

Casey Brown  12:01  
So just so you know, I live in the weeds. Okay,

Unknown Speaker  12:05  
awesome. Okay, good enough. So we're creating our own banking system, right, we're using this vehicle, actually design a life insurance contract that is specially

Casey Brown  12:16  
designed, you say specially designed? So, is it specially designed for this process? Or is it specially designed as in what? What is that? What is that part of it?

Unknown Speaker  12:27  
Yeah, sure. So, and I'm second, and then kind of like, okay, so we're using life insurance as our vehicle, right. And there's different ways you can design life insurance with these insurance companies, right. So what we want to do is when we're starting up our life insurance contract, first off, we want to use a mutual company so we can partake, and be part owner, right, and get those dividends and profits. So that knocks the stock companies out. So there's a small amount or finite amount of mutual insurance companies that we would consider working with, right, and we're going to be partner with them. You are set? Yeah, you're a partner with them. You're part owner when you start up one of these contracts, right. Okay. And in life insurance, say with mutual company or any other type of company, you're going to have whole life contracts or permanent contracts, and term contracts. So a term insurance would be, hey, you're paying a small premium for a certain period of term. Yeah, yeah, quite cheap. Because the chances that pays out are like one and 100. And you're really betting against insurance company versus betting with them right. Now, I saying nothing. anything's wrong with term insurance. But you want to make sure you're protected. But the chances that pays out are very low. And by the

Casey Brown  13:44  
time Dave Ramsey insurance policy, I believe, yeah,

Unknown Speaker  13:47  
right. And by the time the insurance would pay out, you either or you really wanted it, you're either going to be uninsurable, or it's gonna cost too much, right. So now you get permanent insurance, and you got whole life, you got Universal Life, variable, Universal Life, equity Indexed Universal Life, things of that nature, we want to stick with the whole life contract, because these other contracts really isn't truly fully insurance and you're not carrying, you're still carrying a lot of risk. And you're not getting as many guarantees with like a whole life contract. And that's more of an investment than it is like a platform to store your capital that you can fully bank on. Right. But we can circle back to that. And let's not talk about that for now. So now we're we've identified, we want to whole life insurance contract, okay, we don't want to work with a mutual company. And out of those mutual companies, there may be, you know, a couple of dozen, we're only going to work between like three and five. And we specifically work with two right currently. And we work with a one to understand the concept that we're talking about Infinite Banking. So there could be great mutual companies that don't support infinite banking, or don't have a good product for it. And we wouldn't want to deal with them, right? You want to deal with someone who wants to be in the game with us. So then you have to contract and when Design a contract, typically whole life has a poor nature tied to it. And I understand why. And they say it's a poor investment, even though technically, it's not an investment, it's a vehicle we're using. And you compare it to what you're doing through checking your savings account, before deploying your capital in your investments, right? Or finance life. But that policy, we say, okay, how can we make this a little bit more efficient. So what you do is you design the policy, right, and you have a base premium, just like any insurance contract has, that base premium is gonna be much higher than the term premium, because it's a term for your whole life. So it's guaranteed to pay out, you're betting with the insurance company. So to have that level premium for your life, it's going to be top heavy to cost, which means when you start paying your premiums, you're going to have two things right? Fit and then as value is what we're focusing on here, because that's going to offer us the ability to financial bank with our contract, right? That cashed out, technically is just the spot price for if you were to surrender your policy of what they would pay you to liquidate their to liquidate at that death benefit. And then that so that ultimately the cash value. Yeah, age 121. Because the cash value is merely the present value less future growth and premiums, if you want to get technical, but we're focusing on the cash value, the cash value itself, when the dollars get in there, we want to try to kind of turbocharged those, for example. So you got a base premium, you got a rider you could use that you could throw on the policy called a paid up edition rider can be called a little bit different depending on the company. And we'll do a certain blend, right to get it. The policy a little bit more turbocharged, so to speak. So for an analogy, we're going to have, say we had $100,000, we start flowing our dollars through our own banking system. And you could divide this by 10, you could times it by 10. But let's say $100,000 premium, the base premium would be about 40,000, on how we design it. And that would be for the life of the policy. So it could be paid up till age 7595, whatever that in the beginning here, say specifically the first four years, we'll use a paid up editions writer, and that'll be 60,000 to equal 100. Right. So the base is like the horsepower in a car takes a couple years to get going. Right? Just like starting a business, it takes couple years to start being really profitable and compounding for you, right, just like remember to create a traditional bank, right? Same thing, you're not gonna get paid back on here, it's gonna take couple years. But then as it keeps compounding, it's just ever increasing getting better and better, right, because you made the investment for it. Good things take time. Yeah, then that paid up additions, riders like the turbo in the car, that turbo helps us accelerate quicker. And then after four years, we dropped the turbo off because the horsepower is kicking in, right. So your commitment, the beginnings a little bit higher to kind of supercharge it. And now at this point, the policy starting to compound we dropped the turbo off doesn't mean you couldn't leave it on depending on the scenario. And technically we do leave it on when we bank because we're going to send ourselves more interest back to ourselves in the form of additions. But in the Yang, you're going to have that that turbo. Now I will say do a higher turbo to get started and quicker, well, you'll overheat the car, if you do too low of a turbo it takes too long to get going. And then you want to have that happy medium is the analogy, right? So as we're PHONER there, we're going to get that cash value, that cash value will be growing.

Unknown Speaker  18:37  
Free, right? As long as we handle it properly, you're going to participate in any profits insurance company has on a pro rata basis, that contract, that contract is between you and the insurance company private back, it'll be on an insured that could be you or someone you have an insurable interest in like a wife, kids, business partner, etc.

Casey Brown  19:00  
Doesn't have to be on S would have to be on somebody like

Unknown Speaker  19:05  
that. Yeah. So if you were to have a policy, Casey, you will first off it's insurance. So you want to make sure you're covered. Right? And it's going to be based off your income at the breadwinner, I'm gonna make sure you're covered over other people in your family, at least to start, right. And you started the policy, so you put it on yourself. So you're gonna have three players in the play the insured the owner, the beneficiary, are insured in this case would be both you the beneficiary, it could be a wife, or kids or trust or whatever that or church or splitting whatever it may be your business partner, or a bank, whatever to pay off the loan, like you can move that around. Everything except the insured can be changed after the fact. Right? And so it's like a little mini trust kind of so to speak, but you could also have a wife as the insurance he was the owner. And then the beneficiary also you see so you can kind of play around. But you can only have a policy on something you have insurable interest in just like you can't insure my car car, right guy because you're really insuring it. So hopefully that answers your question. Does that answer your questions?

Casey Brown  20:08  
Yeah, that's the that's the full circle back to because I it was Yeah, again, it was confusing as to whether or not we were an owner in the pool of insurance or if we were simply just so yes. All right. So now start us Where where are we? Where are we standing right now we have a, I have a contract with a mutual insurance company on my life with my wife as the beneficiary. And then the Mutual Insurance Company X is now in possession of, so I've basically deposited like, $40,000 into this contract, correct?

Unknown Speaker  20:48  
Yeah. So so it doesn't matter. Like for this example, we're saying 100,000. So you're funding 100 For four years, then you dropped down to 40, in year five and on. But that could be any number. So someone's like, I honestly, I don't even want to talk about the funding amounts, because education needs to come first. So let's circle back to the concept. Because Infinite Banking concept, not infinite banking details, right. So it's like, understand the concept first. And the details come later, that was just an example to show the turbo and the base. But let's circle back the concept, but you have your money flowing into your checking or savings account. So why don't we build up our own bank, which we've been talking about which we're doing, and then we list let's let's realist off the benefits, the cash and they're now going to be grown tax free, you'll get to participate in any profits and dividends that company offers, because you're part owner and the pool of money. When you put the money there, that contract and policy is yours, you own it, the money will be on their balance sheet, and there'll be investing it in a very conservative manner. And they have a lot of surplus reserves and things that nature, they're very, very, they're engineers, they're actually over a nature

Casey Brown  21:55  
have Yeah, history of of them in their finances is Yeah, I mean,

Unknown Speaker  22:00  
yeah, so it's going to be heavily creditor protected, depending on the state, you're gonna have a nice death benefit, that's also great benefit, and illness protection, if something were to happen, you could borrow from the death benefit, not cash value, to help fund those medical expenses. And with that, it's just a great vehicle, let your money kind of compound and grow because it's flowing, just like your money is flowing, and a brick and mortar bank, you're just not getting the benefits of it, you get more of the benefits over here with policy, right, because your partner bank, that is the vehicle that's the platform, that we're setting up the business, we are starting to practice infinite banking. So now you go back to that ledger of the assets and liabilities, credits and debits, the left side our money pool that we're growing, and this is a system, it grows over time, you can't do it all on here. And then as you keep growing your system, you expand your breaking branches, you may get another policy on yourself, or another one on a family member or business partner and you keep growing your system of policies right. As your cash is this we'll get back into some details and stuff, we have a contractual right to borrow against the cash value. So think of it is a line of credit. It's called a policy loan. So we get a borrow against that cash value, up to virtually 100%. We control it, they could not ever call that line of credit, it's a very competitive rate of interest right now. It's just 4%. To borrow, and your money still compounds in the policy between four and 5%, tax free 24/7. And then you can borrow against it and go put it to work and your assets and your behavior. So for example, you go buy real estate, if you had 50 grand the checking account, and you go invest it in a fun with selling, say it's like you write for example, Casey, you go put it to work. Well now to the cash in your account, or the investment, this scenario, you're starting up your poles, where your asset there, and you get to go invest in the fun, you get both. So over time, you're going to invest to get paid back, right, and it's going to come back with friends. So you're gonna start getting cash flow back and principal on a refinance or sale and some profit, yo ain't yourself back with interest. So you pay back all the loan, policy loan interest, but then your policy is still compelling, offsetting all that policy loan interest, right? And then you're actually going to recapture even more as you're paying yourself back. And we send that to our policy in the form of more paid up additions, increase our money pool, and then borrow against it again, which comes in with that banking. But then we have the infinite Well, what can I use it for? I could use it to finance a car, I can use it to fully fund it. I could buy a whole apartment complex my system grows. But here's where the interesting. Say you had 100,000 in cash value in your policy. You borrow out at borrow against 80 You'll put it to work in a deal. Okay, that is great deals going well. You have an open line of credit of 80 grand that building could be paying you or is going to pay you right money's gonna flow back to you which is great. that money flowing back to you guess where it's sitting? Typically someone else's bank, okay, let's get that to our own bank. So the cash flow, we're not spending, we could sit there, the reserves that are sitting there, we could sit back in our policy, and the escrow property taxes and insurance bills. Well, we're stacking that up here and accruing it we can't investors don't be Excel, why don't we pay down our line of credit temporarily, to reduce the interest, we're being charged, recapture tax free, and then borrow against it again, to pay that bill later, and you're building up a bigger and bigger system? And every year your policy or you win?

Casey Brown  25:35  
Well, and I mean, it's, that's, excuse me, while I go, my mind is just blown away at this concept. I mean, it's so it's, it's now I know that these are, these are just some of the some of the questions that are kind of off the top of my head. Okay. That may be potential, somebody that's looking at doing this could potentially be asking that the there's all all one of the biggest, I guess hurdles to to life insurance is that is the health test, the, you know, the blood work. And whatever else goes along with that now, is this the type of contract that we're talking about is a standard life insurance contract that somebody has to go get? Now, you may educate me here a little bit on whole life and term life, because I used to have a term life policy just Personally, myself, it was just, it was a small something to get, so that I could ensure that my wife could get our house paid off. And since I've, I've re worked my entire insurance life. So with that being said, I'm not not educated all the way up on whole life. Is there, is there some type of a bypass to to the health test, or what if somebody can't qualify? And the cost of their death benefit is, is greater to the insurance company, obviously.

Unknown Speaker  26:59  
Yeah, sure. So this is life insurance, the end of the day, and it needs to be put on an individual's health and life, that insured does not have to be you. You can practice infinite banking, you can practice this strategy. You just have to be owner that contract, but you can own it if it's on a spouse, or a business partner, or on an insurable interest in Yeah, so I got like six or seven policies, I got a couple on me. And I got like four on business partners.

Casey Brown  27:28  
Okay. So what's the typical interest rate exchange here? In pay by the insurance company versus V? borrowed amount? So obviously, if you go borrow, if you go borrow $100,000, from the bank, you're looking at just let's say, three and a half, percent 4% 5%, whatever, obviously, it's dictated by your risk level that the bank sees you at. So if I go borrow $100,000, at 5%, let's just say, what is the what is that life insurance contract? What is the typical insurance rate? Are they very comparable? Is there a big Is there a big Delta there? What are we what are we looking at?

Unknown Speaker  28:09  
Yeah, sure. So and I want to make sure I in my previous question, yes, we're gonna go through a traditional underwriting for the good life insurance. If for some reason you're uninsured, then you could put on someone else's health and life, the way these capabilities and the cash value, then, if someone's 20, or someone 60, the actual cash value growth would be very similar within a couple percentage points. So even though the insurance costs and the death benefit would be much lower, for the older person versus the younger, the process, the banking and the finance capabilities remain the same, it still works. Okay. It's kind of your think about a different way. So just kind of unconventional way of thinking. And once again, to recap, I'll mail anyone a copy of becoming your own banker, by Nelson Nash's really helps you understand the foundation framework has visuals, and just email me at Harper at create tailwind. com, I'll send you a free copy of tailwind. Right. Yeah. So it'll be tail when CRATTAILW ind calm thing is still there. Right. But now for your next question. And these are all a lot of questions that I get when people are wanting to learn about this and study. Right? And it's good, because you're starting to get the grasp of it, the basic understanding scenario asking more of the detail questions. So for example, you put your money into one of these contracts, it's going to be growing at a contractual rate right. Now, that rate could be a little higher, depending on the interest rate environment, because you have the dividend. So say you had a contractual rate of 3% Right? Then the dividends 5% Well, then you'd be you know, around 5% area, but the dividends creep up Diamonds creep down, that can be slightly different, but let's just say it's between four and 5%, let's say four and a half percent right now, okay? And this is not about interest rates at all, because the process of banking goes on whether interest rates are 20% or zero, it never stops. So we got to think about it conceptually. But for this question, let's say it's grown to four and a half percent, the four and a half percent is growing tax free, right? If handled properly, so that means you're technically your true rate of return is higher. When you borrow depending on the company, it could be anywhere, let's say around five, the company we're using right now has a built borrow at four. So then let's just say that you're winning out slightly, or it's a net wash. Okay. So then you're like, Okay, well, it's the net wash, that's not bad. Okay, you're also carrying a death benefit that would otherwise have a cost that you'd be paying for via term, you got to factor that in? Remember, you're growing tax free, so you're actually winning out? Yours is compounding uninterrupted, versus you paying simple interest of the 4% on that policy alone? And are you going to be borrowing 100% of your money 100% of the time in your bowl? Well, no, because if you use it as a system, instead of a one off scenario, money may sit there before deal, you may have a refinance event and pay everything back. And then you're like, I'm gonna ruin my own banking system, I need to open up another one, you're gonna have escrow bills, property taxes, insurance, you send in your policy, so then your true interest rate you pay at the end of the year, maybe two or 3%. And maybe much lower, even lower than that, because you're using it as a system of flowing money in and out. So it's like, do you ever? Do you ever asked yourself? Well, how big of a cheque do I want to write to my checking account? No, you just put it there. It's the same thing here. This is this is literally putting it between what you're doing already your money flow in and flow for a deal. But in between that, right, that's all you're doing is simply flowing your money differently. Now, yes, it takes some years to get compounding and growing, and to really reap the benefits. But that's with anything good in life. It takes time. Right? You got to make the best.

Casey Brown  32:00  
Yeah, sir. Now, real quick before because we're running tight on time here. But real quick, what is why is it growing tax free on the on the insurance contracts.

Unknown Speaker  32:16  
So the whole life insurance contracts have been around for hundreds of years. So they're not a creature of the. So the way that it's just taxed is that they say that it's return a premium to when they send it to you is how it's technically classified. And as long as you keep the money within there, it's it's technically tax deferred. So the way in contracts are treated is FIFO. First In First Out, so let's say you committed a million bucks over your lifetime to one of these policies, right? Yep, yep, then the cash value is 3 million, okay, whatever age is, maybe you could withdraw up to a million tax free, and then everything above your basis would be taxable. But what we're doing is we're gonna let this keep growing, let her pull money, keep growing, borrowing, and borrowing. And if you borrow your dividend at that point in growth, the policy would offset your interest and other assets that pay back the money flow, right? We'll all see debt against the policy is not taxable. And you can live off that passive income vehicle later in life, you borrow against it. Free

Casey Brown  33:27  
and then and then and then the, the, and I know sometimes the listeners, I mean, I'm just I'm thinking about this as as listeners are listening. And and so then it's hard to quantify. But the the death benefit is just kind of over there. Like he's like, Tom Hanks just waving, you know, saying, Hey, I'm over here, Mo here when you need me. And that's, that's unreal, that and it's out. The death benefit is over here just chillin at an inverter looking at it saying, Hey, we're Wow, wow. So it's just a circle. And it truly is infinite banking, especially if you were to be able to to get a reserve of that interest built up. That could be borrowed against that you just technically never draw out. But then upon your death, the whole policy is paid out to the to the beneficiary tax free. I know that's free, right?

Unknown Speaker  34:25  
Yeah. So say for example, your death is 3 million, let's say death benefit or your cash value 3 million death benefits like 6 million right? And then let's say you borrow you got outstanding policy loans of 2 million, then it would be the 6 million death benefit less than in cash value. And they would send a net for to your beneficiaries tax free. So it's like, well, they get paid off because your death benefit will always be higher than your cash value, unless you live at age 121 With these contracts,

Casey Brown  34:53  
but yeah, it's basically like, almost like a stepped up basis for for land or for Real estate assets when somebody has. So it's very similar that so

Unknown Speaker  35:04  
and listen. Oh, go ahead. I was gonna add one more thing because we're getting some more details. Yeah. Say you hit the estate limits where you're going to have a state taxes and stuff like that which we don't know what the future holds and if it's gonna be higher or lower, but these insurance contracts, remember you can change the owner, just in case you owned it, you're like, Oh wow, we're gonna have we're gonna be surpassing the state limit, I'm gonna have these extra taxes well here, we transfer ownership of the policy to irrevocable trust or irrevocable trust, and now it's out of your estate. But those funds the death benefit funds could be used to help assist paying estate taxes and or get the death benefit out of your estate. So it lowers your position, right? So it's pretty, pretty.

Casey Brown  35:49  
This is, this is the stuff that that I mean, guys, this is this is how billionaires are made. This is how billionaires treat I mean, this is powerful, powerful stuff. When you when you start thinking about, you know, everybody's like, well, I just want someone to pay their fair share taxes or whatever the case is. But you know, when you start thinking about it, nobody wants to pay in their self they want, you know, so anyway, when you really start looking at it in niching, this thing down and saying, Hey, you're in, you're basically into a life insurance contract, you're out of it, the borrowed money, and you just you just continue that cycle, and it just just builds and builds and builds. Okay, well, listen, Harper, the last thing I want to do here, I want you to tell the listeners again, repeat that email address, repeat the website, I want everybody to make sure they know how to get a hold of you. So that because I'm 1,000% sure that there's going to be a boatload of questions after this discussion that we've had. So how can the listeners get a hold of you? And and again, repeat that that ebook that you said you would send them? The discusses all of this? Yeah, sure.

Unknown Speaker  36:53  
So the book is becoming your own banker. I'll actually mail you a physical copy, I think is good to go through physically. But Harper Jones via email at Harper ha RP are at create tailwind calm, which is CR, EA, T e, t A il Wi So we reached out happy to mail you a copy. Once you read the book, I'm more than happy to give you plenty my time to talk further. And if it makes sense for you, then we can get you set up, coach you on Infinite Banking set up the policy for you. And you know, we don't charge any extra fees and create talent for the coaching. You end up doing business with us and, and getting policies with us. Then the coaching, you know, comes free and you have that in perpetuity.

Casey Brown  37:39  
Good deal, man. Well, Harper, thank you again. And to the listeners, thank you all for spending the last 30 or so minutes with us. We really appreciate your time. And Harper, I can't thank you enough for taking your time to educate us on what the Infinite Banking concept and what Infinite Banking actually is and what it is not. And so on and so forth. So, anyway, thank you very much listeners. I want to remind you to catch us on the Money Talks Mondays. And I want to remind you to catch us on the F everything Fridays. Okay, we will learn more about that. Catch us on Monday. Catch us on Friday, Harper. Thanks again, my friend. If we can do anything for you, you reach out and let us know. And we thank you so much. Yeah, thanks

Unknown Speaker  38:22  
Casey really enjoyed it.

Casey Brown  38:23  
Yes, sir.

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