June 30, 2022

Real Estate Partnerships with Eric Panecki and Veronique Hut

Real Estate Partnerships with Eric Panecki and Veronique Hut

In the 75th episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk with Eric Panecki of Leverage Capital Ventures and his business partner Veronique. Eric was always attracted to the entrepreneur lifestyle. He went to school in West Virginia in Economics and...


In the 75th episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk with Eric Panecki of Leverage Capital Ventures and his business partner Veronique. Eric was always attracted to the entrepreneur lifestyle. He went to school in West Virginia in Economics and shortly took up real estate because of the time and financial freedom it offers. He began as a real estate agent, then worked at a real estate hedge fund before he bought his first property and started flipping houses. Today Eric and his family specialize in multi-family and now around 100 units.


Veronique “V” is a co-founder at Leverage Capital Ventures. She has a range of interests, having dabbled in marine biology and finally getting a computer science degree. Eventually, she took another route into private lending that paved the way for real estate.


Eric and Veronique share their experience as they take on financial and real estate.



In this episode, we discuss:

  • Following your gut and creating your opportunities
  • The importance of a balanced partnership and what that looks like
  • Critical aspects of mixed-use properties


Tune in on this episode to find out more!


Find your flow,

Casey Brown


Resources mentioned in this podcast:


Unknown Speaker  0:06  
Hey there, and welcome to today's episode of cash flow Pro, your daily real estate investing podcast and YouTube channel. I'm here today with Eric pinoke of leverage capital. And we were talking a little bit before the show, and they are located in a crowded New Jersey is what he was telling me. And we're ever so grateful for those folks up there, though, because they do bring a lot to the real estate market. And they bring a lot of real estate education, mostly because they have a lot of stuff going on. So Eric, how are you today? I'm doing good. I'm doing good. I also going to introduce my partner, Veronique HUD, who I kind of threw in last minute here. Just, you know, spice things up, but she's always a good entertaining guests. I figured Two is better than one. Yeah, absolutely. Very naked. Welcome. How are you? I'm good. I'm good. When Eric says last minute, he says come to my office, let's do this thing.

Unknown Speaker  1:09  
So he really means like, last minute, like, like, hey, get this stuff down. And let's go Well, the thing is, is that if your business is like our business, it's it's basically like, it's what we live, breathe, eat sleep, the whole nine yards. So, you know, doing these interviews and doing this stuff last minute, typically, at least for me, um, hopefully, like, you all is not very tough, because, you know, we were sitting there thinking about it anyway. Right? So you might as well just get up and then go talk about it instead of just sitting there thinking about it. So well, good. Well, welcome you all, I guess, Eric, let's start with you just a little bit. And tell us a little bit about where you come from. And then Bernie, you can jump in. And then we'd like to hear a little bit about your backstory. And then we'll just kind of take it from there. Yeah, perfect. First things first, they appreciate you having us on. And so he's a great opportunity when you get to speak to like minded individuals. And clearly you have a great thing going on here. So we're happy to be a part of it.

Unknown Speaker  2:11  
We're glad to have you. Let's say that we're always glad that

Unknown Speaker  2:16  
you know, we just got started. We don't know how this thing's gonna turn out. But

Unknown Speaker  2:20  
ya know, my background is nothing super impressive. I've always been pretty entrepreneurial guy.

Unknown Speaker  2:29  
You know, from a young age, I was starting businesses, whether that was snow shoveling or you know, selling lighters on eBay, or concert tickets, or whatever it was, basically, anything I could do to not get a job and make money.

Unknown Speaker  2:45  
Work for the man. That's right. That's what we call, they don't want to work.

Unknown Speaker  2:50  
Exactly. Went to school, West Virginia for economics. And, you know, I was there.

Unknown Speaker  2:56  
The thing that always came to me was was freedom, right? I got into real estate for the same reason I think a lot of people do. Which is, you know, being able to control my own destiny and not having to, to answer to someone at the end of the day, you know, going to work because I want to work not because I have to work has always been something that was super important for me and intriguing. And, you know, when you when you start looking at what's the best way to create financial freedom, you'd have to put blinders on and not see real estate come up. So you know, real estate, you know, the old cliche is, you know, 90% of millionaires made their wealth in real estate. So that's, that's for me. What got me interested initially.

Unknown Speaker  3:42  
You know, started looking at different opportunities. I did the real estate agent thing. I went and started trying to sell houses clearly not for me. I did sell one house I did.

Unknown Speaker  3:54  
And I started working for a hedge fund lending money to real estate investors, basically. And I was like, Look, these guys are making a ton of cash. Yeah. You start seeing the margins on these deals. And also I was a little green and didn't see closing costs and realtor fees and holding costs and all that stuff. So I'm looking at gross profit I'm seeing like 500k 300k and ideal I was like these guys are killing it.

Unknown Speaker  4:22  
Which they I'm sure they were but not not quite that okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Unknown Speaker  4:27  
So, you know, work for the hedge fund for about six months I bought my first house and in Montclair, New Jersey, which is a really nice area was in way over my head like an 800k Hard money along with about like 16 grand in the bank at the time. Yeah. Oh, man. So so that was a fun story. And so I could go on about that. But you know, I don't want to take up the whole podcast but yeah, and then, you know, we started flipping houses we got into multifamily. Started doing some wholesaling and

Unknown Speaker  5:00  
And now we're pushing on 100 units on the acquisition side.

Unknown Speaker  5:05  
We've done a ton of transactions 100 100 single families or multifamily duplexes, multifamily, got

Unknown Speaker  5:16  
like five to 10 unit, apartment, yeah,

Unknown Speaker  5:21  
came together with V. So V could definitely speak for herself, she was working for a developer in LA and we started working on some loans together. And I was like, this girl's got it and kind of one thing led to another and I convinced her to come to beautiful New Jersey, all the way from LA. And we started the lending company about a year and a half ago,

Unknown Speaker  5:43  
basically out of a need. So again, we can speak for herself, but she's, you know, she was buying properties at the time, we saw a need in the multifamily mixed use space for a really strong bridge product.

Unknown Speaker  5:55  
And that's been our investment thesis, we raised money around it and

Unknown Speaker  6:00  
we're basically that's our focus is lending money to real estate investors in that one to $10 million space for for five plus unit apartment complex has value and, and mixed use buildings and some new construction we do in there, but I don't want to completely cut you off the one real quick before we jump over and hear her story. You mentioned in there the word mixed up or the words mixed use. And I think that's, that's kind of an asset class that's always been there. Always been there. And it's obviously you know, it's always been just look at like, like, the like episodes of friends years ago, where you know, those were, we're like at least had the had the feel of a mixed use where you got coffee shop or something on the main level and then and then you go up, and it's residential. And, and I think that although mixed use buildings are very common, where you all are at, I think that the rest of the world is just now starting to figure out just how valuable of an asset class they are. Because you're basically you're almost hedging one against the other, you know, commercial takes a dive, you've got the residential residential goes to crap, you've got the commercial. And so anyway, I just wanted to touch on that. And maybe we can talk a little and dive in a little bit further on some of your expertise or knowledge about mixed use after we hear Veronique story? Well, it's a great segue, I can't take any credit for the MISC mixed use aspect of it. It's that was all these doing. She She's super passionate about mix up, you could talk to why why are you super passionate about mixed use? Is that what you said? Yeah, that

Unknown Speaker  7:43  
although I've never done a lot of

Unknown Speaker  7:47  
super passionate about misuse, birth, let's go I'm ready.

Unknown Speaker  7:51  
I'll tell you no.

Unknown Speaker  7:55  
Words, I usually go against the norm. So yeah,

Unknown Speaker  8:00  
that's where the profits are, though. Most of the time, you know, the norm, the norm gets you the if if we were if we were all the norm we'd be we'd be working an eight to five and, and Leave It to Beaver kind of stuff, you know, so I got you. I'm with you. I love it. I love it. Let's go. So all right, I won't cut you off again, let's hear your story. You're so good. You know, Eric selves sells themselves short, in my opinion. Um, you know, he, in my opinion, is the best at

Unknown Speaker  8:32  
creating something out of nothing, way quicker than I've seen, you know, a lot of people do. And

Unknown Speaker  8:39  
so, you know, hats off to him on in that scenario, I learned a ton from him every single day. In regards to my own story.

Unknown Speaker  8:47  
It's not as straightforward as Eric's, you know, I didn't always know I wanted to get into the finance real estate side of things. I originally am from Poland. We moved over, you know, when I was about 10 years old, and you know, I am first generation here.

Unknown Speaker  9:04  
A lot of what I was taught and I grew up on is, you know, freedom, but it's also you know, generational

Unknown Speaker  9:12  
creating a better life, right? Um, you know, the American story, if you will, all

Unknown Speaker  9:18  
so grew up in New Jersey, and then I went to college in Charleston, South Carolina. I went to college for marine biology, believe it or not, yeah, interesting. Well, mine had to swim with whales originally. And then after about a semester of that, I was like, What am I going to do for the rest of my life? I'm not going to live in the ocean. So I tried finding something else. I ended up graduating with a computer science degree. I did that for about a year at a college and absolutely hated it. Yep. On top on top of that, right, I had a ton of student loans and I was like, I'm never gonna pay these off even with a great salary and this and that. So on the side I got into I started working for a private lender.

Unknown Speaker  10:00  
I'm just trying to get my foot in the door into real estate and understanding really, you know where to go from here. I did that for a little bit. And then I ended up getting a little bit of an insight into real estate development, which I think is extremely interesting, because it's very tangible, right, you see.

Unknown Speaker  10:20  
And so I ended up moving out to California, I worked for a pretty large real estate developer out there, where, you know, I worked on, you know, some magnificent projects, learned a ton, between underwriting development, you know, everything. And after that, as Eric mentioned, you know, we kind of came together started working on a few side loans, and then it kind of grew organically from there. So we had to see where it goes. And, you know, the mixed use aspect really comes from my old boss. It's something that he invests in builds in a ton. And

Unknown Speaker  10:57  
his thought process on it is something that really pulled me in, it helped me understand the reasoning behind it, the investment process.

Unknown Speaker  11:09  
And so I kind of just have stuck with that ever since cold, Dale? Well, you know, I want to pick out a couple little things there. You know, it's interesting, because a lot of folks, the first thing they tell you in marketing, when you step into marketing is or if you're, you know, when you finally get your niche, niche, so whatever you want to call it down,

Unknown Speaker  11:31  
and they tell you to create an avatar, right. And I firmly believe that there's like, there's like three main avatars for people that are trying to raise capital for any type of thing. And I feel like

Unknown Speaker  11:45  
biologists is the very is one of the very top, mostly because it's a very systematic mindset. And, and from this standpoint, at least, where I'm at, like, everything is systematized, you know, everything from the podcast all the way through to the raising capital from, from filling out of a form online all the way through. And then and, you know, so there's engineers, in my opinion, there's engineers, biologists, and then doctors fall somewhere between the two, if you will, but it's very systematized, when you're looking at investing or capital raising from the retail side. I guess that's, that's, that's just something that jumped out to me, it was interesting when you said that now. The, the mixed use stuff is still obviously that that's on my mind. But I would like to get maybe a little bit on,

Unknown Speaker  12:37  

Unknown Speaker  12:39  
so that you were working for a developer, and then we can kind of go into a little bit about, like, what made you what made you think that this route was, it was better than what you were doing?

Unknown Speaker  12:55  
What made you think it was better?

Unknown Speaker  13:00  
I think I've always I, I'm a big believer in opportunity.

Unknown Speaker  13:04  
If you know it, personally, I'm a believer, and it doesn't really just drop at the doorstep, you have to really, whether it's habits or actions, really be consistent about it and create them by yourself sometimes. And so, you know, the job for that developer. I mean, I network between people for about two, three months. And he you know, was hiring somebody else. And I just, I had a gut feeling with him where, you know, he said he wasn't hiring at this point in time, this and that. And I said, Look, can I just have five minutes of your time friendly phone call? And I said to him, like, I just know I want to work for you. And so what I asked him is, you know, all worked for free for three months, I just know

Unknown Speaker  13:51  
everything that's in your brain you've done it, you've been successful you've been doing for a long time, I will work for free for three months, if you don't want to hire me after that no hard feelings, we can part ways you know, all that good stuff.

Unknown Speaker  14:03  
And for me, it's just creating your own opportunity, really, sometimes taking the big risk, not making as much in the short term, but obviously paying off in the long term. And so I think same thing here with the situation with Eric right, same thing here. It's, you know, I was giving something up they thoroughly and and I'm extremely grateful for for the opportunity and things that I was able to do and learn. But just an opportunity that we created that I just could not give up. Yeah. How to try it out. Sure. Well, that's awesome. So um, so as far as like, let's let's, let's chat again, I still we're still gonna go back to the mixed use because that's, I think it's so important right now in from a lot of different perspectives and I think there again, but so let's talk about leverage capital, the business itself, and maybe you mentioned this earlier, and I could have possibly missed it, but I'd like to if you did, I'd like to

Unknown Speaker  15:00  
reiterating for the listeners. But what? Let's from a delegation of responsibilities.

Unknown Speaker  15:07  
Eric, you do what? And I guess it's okay to call you V. Veronique? Vini, whatever. What are you specifically responsible for as far as like day to day stuff? Because I think this is an interesting spot as well, because a lot of times we have individual we have individual listener, or we have individual guests on the show. Very rarely do we have a chance to peek into a partnership, which I'm assuming is not a you're not married or anything like that? Correct. I mean, obviously have different last name. So this is just purely a business platonic relationship. So on Right, right. Okay, cool. Well, I mean, that that's fine. I just want to make sure we're not talking like husband wife stuff. Like, I can't stand the way he puts the cup in the sink. And, and

Unknown Speaker  15:53  
it's a marriage, but we're not married. But not Yeah, okay. Okay, cool. No, I get that for sure. And most partnerships are and that's important for a lot of people out there listening to rumors, well, you jump into partnership, you better know what you're doing, you better have a good idea where it what what parameters are so All right. So give us a little bit of an idea of what the delegation of responsibilities looks like on day to day, share? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  16:15  
Yeah, I guess we can I mean, so, you know, it's not as simple as front office, back office. But I like that, you know, from a day to day perspective, obviously, we're both, you know, working together to grow the business, but I spend a lot more time on the sales side, client facing, you know, going out raising money,

Unknown Speaker  16:36  
you know, managing the, you know, the, the employees, a lot of this the time I'm managing and trying to motivate employees.

Unknown Speaker  16:45  
So, I'm, you know, I spent a lot of time on the front end, more focused on growth, definitely.

Unknown Speaker  16:53  
More, I don't want to say risk vert, I enjoy risk, honestly.

Unknown Speaker  16:59  
I like risk.

Unknown Speaker  17:02  
I feel like even in the worst case scenario, that we'll figure it out.

Unknown Speaker  17:07  
And, you know, it's a lot of checks and balances. So, on the back end, you know, he spends a lot of

Unknown Speaker  17:15  
time, you know, mitigating risks, making the business run, like an actual business, you know, if I add a bunch of fuel to fire, she's going in taming that fire, and making sure that, you know, grows as smooth either even direction and, you know, from assist that you said, you know, biologists are very systems oriented.

Unknown Speaker  17:38  
And I see that with V. There's times where it's just like, Wow, you did that just way better than I could have ever done. So I mean, you could speak more on that. But, you know, from a delegation of responsibility, it's, you know, I'm definitely more of the well, and I also would like to point out from a partnership standpoint, which the partnerships that I've been involved in as well. It's not an exclusive like, like, the fact of the matter is, is if you were sick one day, and you had an important meeting coming up, it's not like she couldn't step in and help or or take over, I guess, again, I'm just, you know, and that's, that's where I think a lot of partnerships fail, because you go in, and you're like, you don't want her stepping into your territory, saying, I'm taking care of the sales, I'm over here doing sale, you stay over there, which I think a lot of times, that's where partnerships fail, when one partner can't overlap into the other partners, responsibilities or willingness to overlap into the other partners responsibilities. And I think the most successful partnerships that you see is where kind of all of the oil in the water ends up equal, where both parties are putting effort, regardless of what that effort is on that day. But anyway, so. So, V, tell us a little bit about your daily responsibilities, like, how do you how do you keep that?

Unknown Speaker  18:58  
Because I'm the gas poor as well. And I completely get that I've got a matter of fact, I've got more than just one person that that tries to go in and

Unknown Speaker  19:10  
put it down and tell me, you know, so Anyway, go ahead. Yeah. But you know, I mean, even to that point, right, without people with personalities and instincts to really pour the gas, right, if we will, there wouldn't be a need, you know, to organize and systemize and, you know, pour water on something. Right. It was. Right. So, you know, I personally think everybody plays their role. I think the biggest thing in a partnership is and I actually heard somebody say this in a different way, in one of our meetings yesterday, is really to be interchangeable to a very large extent, right? We're not the same person, but we do, you know, own the business together. If I'm, you know, out sick for a week, which rarely happens, you know, I know for a fact that Eric can handle it and the business you know, will keep running right

Unknown Speaker  20:00  

Unknown Speaker  20:01  
have an insurance quote that says you getting sick is not that rare of an occurrence.

Unknown Speaker  20:07  
Give or take. I'm

Unknown Speaker  20:11  
sure it's quote waiting.

Unknown Speaker  20:14  
No, I know. I know. Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  20:17  
A jacked up this year, will you get COVID? Five times? How many times? For actually? Yeah, okay, oh my gosh, I don't want and I was that was enough for me I had it but one verifiable time anyway. But you know, even though that's an error, right, you know, the first few times, I was like, kinda, you know, the other two, I was actually fully out of commission. You know, I handle a lot of the underwriting the processing, systems, servicing, you know, the fun admin stuff, you know, making everything, making sure everything runs smoothly, you know, experience on all sides, whether it's an investor, you know, one of our clients as developer, you know, whatever it may be, right, ultimately, it's relationships, right. So I just make sure that that relationship that, you know, whether it's Eric, bring it in, or one of our salespeople that that relationship is maintained in a healthy way, I guess.

Unknown Speaker  21:11  
And so I really do focus on that. But in terms of a partnership, you know, find out or I'm unavailable, right, you know, everybody that works for us, or, you know, is our client or investor, you know, they can kind of treat us interchangeably, which I think is really, really good. That's very important. And, and I'll tell you,

Unknown Speaker  21:31  
at least my business experiences, it's rare to see

Unknown Speaker  21:39  
a partnership like what you all have, especially where it's completely where it's interchangeable. And I guess I said that earlier, not knowing that that was where that was really what you all felt was, was a big point of your business. But, but you know, when you can, when you can swap in and out and make the same, a lot of times the decision making is where, where there gets to be riffs too, because if she makes a decision while you're out, and then you come in, and you're critical, no matter what you're critical about, you could have been critical about the way what time the phone call happened, who knows. But if you're critical than that, that tends to just start, that starts the process of building animosity that ultimately someday is going to explode.

Unknown Speaker  22:26  
And the other part of this, this rare breed of what we're talking about here, is the idea that the majority of us as capital raisers, as fund managers, as property owners, whatever the case is, we're a lot exactly like what you said early on, Eric, I don't like working for the man. So that first of all, puts us almost in an explosive type of, of personality to begin with, because we kind of have a middle finger at the word normal world, while we're off being I don't want to say rebels, because that's not necessarily what what it is, but I just say, so. So to be able to have somebody that recognizes that, that, that that's just who you are. And her job to attain that. And yet keep everything in order is is is super important. So all right. Now, with that being said, I want to jump back to mixed use. I want to jump back and talk a little bit about that, because you had use V, you specifically said that the guy that the gentleman you worked for in was in LA, right. That was kind of his maybe specialty, did I catch that? Right? Or he had a high he had a high knowledge about what was going on there? Yeah. And he did have some, you know, other commercial properties. Right. So they were all mixed use, but a lot of projects were

Unknown Speaker  23:58  
you know, I think there's two ways to look at it. Right. And, and I'm a big personal advocate of

Unknown Speaker  24:06  
health also, Eric, because as well, you know, I think the mixed use aspect, depending on you know, what size of a project you're talking about, oh, it's got a very, it's got a very much be a property specific scenario. I mean, I just don't think you can be like, Oh, I see mixed use everywhere here. I think it's definitely Location, location, location, multiplied by everything else. Yeah. And even to that point, right. You know, the big thing is, you know, whether you're talking about, I don't know, 25 units versus you know, I don't know 3000 Right. You know, I think it opens up the door to create really well rounded communities right. Um, you know, I went to school in Charleston, for example, it's a small downtown, you can walk everywhere you don't have to drive right? Where in comparison to you know, LA, you do have to drive

Unknown Speaker  25:00  
I've mostly

Unknown Speaker  25:02  
in a community sense, right, you know, Santa Monica Take for example, right, there's tons of mixed use properties there. And it creates, you know, a community and environment where, you know, you can do things with friends, I think it creates a better lifestyle, which ultimately, I think, you know, from a owner perspective is great, right? And also, you know, a renters perspective is great, right? Because you live in, you know, the residential units, and you can have a few friends down the block, you can walk to go get food or go to yoga, or whatever it is, right? Because the retail space is at the bottom provide that opportunity. So, yeah, I think it creates something larger than necessarily just obviously returns and good asset and, you know, offsetting the risk on the residential or commercial side, I think it from like a larger picture, I think it creates better lifestyle.

Unknown Speaker  25:55  
And now, that's I couldn't agree more. And I think that, I think, again, it's very, it's very location specific.

Unknown Speaker  26:05  
And I'd like to know a little bit more, I guess. Now, the underwriting of present day, the underwriting using present day figures, is usually not necessarily what I think about when I think mixed use, I think about IRR, because in my opinion, a mixed use property, you're looking at, like what maybe five years out, or 10 years down and then adjusting. So basically, you're almost having to underwrite two different property classes, right, and two different streams of income, and then combine it on a similar underwriting type fashion. And again, and again, now it's not going to be I guess it doesn't turn into be entirely different than an apartment complex that then has the thin has multiple other income facets to it, like covered parking, or maybe fitness center, or maybe pool or whatever. So, but specifically, what are some of the things that you look for? Like if somebody calls you and says, Hey, I got a nice mixed use property, I'll sell you.

Unknown Speaker  27:20  
Currently, the commercial spots vacant, but the all the apartments above or rented? Like what, what is? What are some things that you start looking for when you begin to underwrite and look at the potential for that?

Unknown Speaker  27:33  
Sure, yeah, I mean, I think you hit the nail on the head location, right? is huge. So if you're, if you're gonna look at anything makes use, you want to make sure that the area supports it, right. Our offices in downtown Newark, there's more retail vacant retail space here than than I can imagine. Anywhere and every day I drive through I'm like, what, like, what it what even what you put here.

Unknown Speaker  27:58  
So you know, as as the city comes back, you know, becomes more viable, but and then to V's point, you know, if you go to downtown Santa Monica, you know, you'll get top dollar for that retail space. So I think location is huge. If it can support

Unknown Speaker  28:12  
the retail space, and then you have to your vacancy assumptions, I think took a drastic change, at least for the retail spot, you're generally not a 5% vacancy assumption isn't really realistic. But if you do have on the flip side of that, if you do have a long term tenant in place here, you can basically you don't have to calculate any vacancy because if they got a five year lease and yeah, that value that lease definitely comes into play more on that commercial than it does.

Unknown Speaker  28:45  
The residential side is right. So you know, we like you know, even you know,

Unknown Speaker  28:53  
what's cool about the you know, even smaller mixed use buildings is that if you have like a three apartments with one big one retail space, technically, you could still get FHA financing on that but you could underwrite it based on commercial valuation which poses a pretty cool scenario like you can't go and get a commercial valuation on a on a four family but you can do it on a three apartments plus one retail buyer could be the same so yeah, there's there's a lot of different ways to look at it. I think. Well the one thing that that just clicked in my mind as you were sitting there talking about that and I got to ask the commercial portion of a mixed use building is not

Unknown Speaker  29:36  
like there's no rent control on the commercial portion although there might be on the residential portion so to me it gives you a little bit of a hedge if the market if and like just for instance, the climate we're in right now inflation kicks in price of of whatever goes what price of a croissant. You got a croissant shot, way up. You know your rent can can theoretically

Unknown Speaker  30:00  
Rhys with that while the rent control standards stay in place for the above, right? Yeah, I mean, you bring up a what I think is a really good point. We just got back from one of the one of the biggest industrial conferences in New Jersey. And,

Unknown Speaker  30:17  
you know, what's one of the most surprising factors that I learned?

Unknown Speaker  30:22  
The underwriting has shifted where long term leases are now viewed that as a bad thing.

Unknown Speaker  30:28  
So, ability, yeah, because they're viewed as a bad thing from the ownership standpoint. Yeah, exactly. So previously, you wanted long term leases in place, but now with the market shift, you know, rent increases are outpacing inflation. So if you have long term leases in place, is that not allowable? Oh, I see what you're saying. Okay. Yeah, that makes sense. So, so I thought that was really interesting that nobody wants to buy buildings that have, you know, five year leases in place, because it's kind of like having the hedge on the corn crop that now the price is twice what it was when you hedged it now you're like, now you're, you're awesome. I suck in air up top. I mean, you know, it's, it's, it's one of those things that when you win as commercial ownership steps in, you don't think about, you know, you're you're basically thinking about it today, and maybe next week or next month, specifically. But as inflation kicks in, like it has now said, you're going, you know, I hate this too soon. But you can't really do anything about it. You just don't have to make a margin call every day. I guess.

Unknown Speaker  31:37  
The corn crop analogy is very Kentucky of you. It is it's that's the hillbilly that's part yeah, that's where it come from?

Unknown Speaker  31:47  
Well, listen, it's been an interesting discussion, to say the least I think that it, it definitely bears possibly revisiting at least down the road as you all grow and as, as our listeners respond to, maybe some questions and things that we've got here.

Unknown Speaker  32:07  
But so a couple of questions. So I'm just I'm sorry, I just get intrigued as some of these different takes on things when we start interviewing across the country and the way that different different locations have different specificities of what they their market handles what they don't handle, like. Like there's like two mixed use buildings where I'm sitting, there's like two mixed use buildings within like, 100 mile radius of where I'm sitting right now. And they're both right up the road here. And so I'm just like, that's what I'm so again, that's me. And I think the listenership, again, like I said, across the nation, mixed use stuff is not just super super. It's hot right now, don't get me wrong, but it's not super, super people don't have a lot of knowledge about it. So alright, so here, we're going to end the episode with a couple of different questions. There's no right or wrong answer. But I usually ask one person these questions, but I would like an answer from both of you. And I'm sure they're going to be different. But if I could ask the question, Eric, you go first V. go second. And then the second question, same. So Eric, what is the best book that you have read or read? Or are reading

Unknown Speaker  33:15  
the best book that I've read? You know, I revisited How to Win Friends and Influence People I dreaded 10 years ago. It's a classic, right? But sometimes it's just good to have a refresher. Right? Especially when you when you manage a lot of employees. I don't know if it's a lot, but we have about 2025 employees at this point. Sure.

Unknown Speaker  33:39  
And, you know, you have to hold yourself to a higher standard and, and make sure that you know, you're being the example for everyone else. So for me that one. It's an old classic. My favorite book of all time is Shoe Dog is Phil Knight.

Unknown Speaker  33:53  
That's, that's in my top five, everytime. Always. I love that. I love the whole waffle iron and the whole selling out of the trunk of the car because, dude, I mean, that's like where a lot of us I mean, I wouldn't have briefcase toder but I wasn't far for the only reason I wasn't a briefcase. Toter is because they weren't cool when I got to that stage in my life. Yeah. And so but yeah, sorry. So we what's the what's your what's your the best book you're currently reading or have read or

Unknown Speaker  34:26  
just one, only one. Why did to Jan 20. I don't care where we get time, whatever.

Unknown Speaker  34:33  
I'm a big and I was looking at it last night, which is what I'm picking up on. I'm a big fan of principles

Unknown Speaker  34:40  
by Ray Dalio. Yep. You know, kind of what Eric mentioned. Right as we're growing and we're having growing pains and just in general about business and somebody who's really grown something,

Unknown Speaker  34:52  
you know, enormous, right? Yes, absolutely.

Unknown Speaker  34:56  
Yeah, so, you know, I think the best thing is to really

Unknown Speaker  35:00  
Learn from people who have already been there before you and so I always just kind of check in on that one. Get some new highlights this kind of thing. So big fan of that one. And I'm hitting empty on the title Sam Zell book. What's it called? I know, you know, it seems out for you forget.

Unknown Speaker  35:22  
by Sam Zell. Eric, am I being too subtle?

Unknown Speaker  35:27  
Am I being too so? And actually too subtle? Yeah. And Eric actually gave me the book.

Unknown Speaker  35:34  
It's a very quick read. It's great. It's very entertaining. And

Unknown Speaker  35:39  
it kind of, to me, for me, what it did was just helped me see things a little bit differently. So sure, sure. That's the same with any business, if you can take a different perspective on it. I mean, it's always good to to throw that gas on the fire writer. Yeah. So I guess I mean, for me, I pour the water, she'll pour the water. I mean, I love books just about people that did it.

Unknown Speaker  36:02  
The one of the best ones is, is about the Sam Walton. And we're similar. And I said, we love to read books about you know, other people have grown. You know, you're not really the Waltons just bought my favorite football team. Broncos. Maybe a third? I sure did. That's your that's my team.

Unknown Speaker  36:21  
So yeah, by the time this episode airs, I'm sure it'll be a

Unknown Speaker  36:26  
done deal, but, but he has a Alright, so Eric, what is a dream vacation you have either taken or hoped to take?

Unknown Speaker  36:35  
This is a great question for vacation. Yeah, this is a V question if I ever heard.

Unknown Speaker  36:40  
I'm going to meet your nose in Greece at the end of the month. Yeah, I should be pretty cool. Yeah, that's definitely on top of my lead making notes, especially specifically making notes. I just think that that's a whole. I like me, personally, I like immersing myself in culture,

Unknown Speaker  37:03  
way more than I do sites and stuff like that. I just like culture stuff. Yep. Yeah, for me, I got thrown into that one kind of last minute. But dream vacation would be, I always liked the idea of just going on an adventure somewhere in the in the mountains of some country where,

Unknown Speaker  37:21  
you know, you kind of have to rough it and figure it out and speak to the people and you rent a beat up car, that stick shift because they don't have automatic, you know, and like that kind of thing.

Unknown Speaker  37:33  
I would love to just kind of disconnect for like a, like a month and take go on an adventure. But given one of the businesses that doesn't seem like it's in the short term horizon, but at some point, we'll get there. Yeah, that whole disconnecting part is what's so difficult to find. And I don't think finding that place is all that hard or even getting there is all that hard, but I always thought it'd be cool. Like, I'm trying to think of the country that's west

Unknown Speaker  38:01  

Unknown Speaker  38:03  
Madagascar. It's your Madagascar is the island. And it's right. Like, like somewhere. Like, where? Yeah, like Tanzania, Tanzania that that whole word? Like you just you just like you get out. And these people are like, I don't know, I don't know, I just I would probably end up getting killed because I'd be in the wrong place. But he's a world traveler. So she's been everywhere she got Yeah. Alright. Same question for you. What's the dream vacation you've either taken or oaks take?

Unknown Speaker  38:35  
I am very fortunate. I have traveled a ton. And I'm a big believer in it. I think it gives you a ton of perspective. Oh, absolutely. The world and, you know, I think it's worth every ounce of time and every penny you got personally.

Unknown Speaker  38:52  
That being said, I have been to like 62 countries. Oh, wow. Good. So it's like 62. Like, maybe my my dream vacation is traveling the world for a year and seeing all 196 of them.

Unknown Speaker  39:08  
Interesting. That's that's a pretty big feet, because there's some that you might stand on one side, put your toe over. Alright, let's go.

Unknown Speaker  39:19  

Unknown Speaker  39:21  
um, you know, I've been to a few you know, I've been to countries where, you know, not a lot of people choose to go like, Myanmar, for example is one right? You know, some people, you know, don't even know that it is a country, right? Very much. Yes. So, you know, I think there's always something to be learned. Even if that's the case, you just gotta take the right precautions. Well, you know, one of the things that Airbnb has is, is you can rent a tent,

Unknown Speaker  39:48  
like resting stays and stuff like that, and I'm like, that'd be cool. Then Then my wife's like,

Unknown Speaker  39:55  
she's like, Oh, I can do that. I would do that with you. Let's let's talk about that. And

Unknown Speaker  40:00  
And then we go to Italy for a week. And she's like in the room because she's like, Oh my god, I was so tired. I'm like, really? You could do this. I mean, we have all the amenities of life. And you're saying you could go stay in a tent with me and Tanzania? I was like, I'm going by myself. You, you say, oh, kids. So alright, well, listen, I'll let you all both answer this question however you want. If somebody heard something today, that resonated with them, they like your your your take on a few different things? Or maybe they just have some questions. What is the best way for the audience to possibly reach out and get in touch with you? Yeah.

Unknown Speaker  40:36  
I'm pretty big. We're both actually pretty big on LinkedIn. So they're connected, you can look me up.

Unknown Speaker  40:42  
Definitely reach out on their Instagram is my name. You can you can search me there.

Unknown Speaker  40:48  
We're going out, you know, we're really focused on the multifamily bridge space, we're super competitive on on those loan products, like one to 10 million, we're doing a ton of ton of loan volume. So if there's any way we can help any of your anyone in your audience in that aspect, we're also going out raising money for fun. If that's interesting, anybody but yeah, I mean, we're an open book, if there's any way we can help, you know, grassroots like I said, you know, grew this company from, from nothing to we got 25 employees and 100 units. And,

Unknown Speaker  41:19  
you know, we're doing about 15 million in one volume. So if there's any way we can help somebody scale their business or help them grow or lessons learned, you know, don't do it the hard way. Learn from smarter people. Trust me, it's it's way easier. Yeah, most.

Unknown Speaker  41:32  
And that's what a lot of entrepreneurs fail or think they're entrepreneurs. They fail they they're too bullheaded, they don't want to listen, they don't, they don't want to ask for help. Yeah. Or ask for help. Yeah, yep, I subscribe to the squeaky wheel strategy, the squeaky wheel gets the lube, right? You got to ask for help. I'll let you know. I'm big on it. As long as it's not. I think one of the biggest humbling things for me was the day I finally decided to join a mastermind and obtain a mentor a paid mentor that I mean, people like really shouldn't you should have to but but you know, I mean, everybody. The thing is, is that if you don't invest in it, you won't take anything from it. And I think that's the that's, that's a double edged sword because it seems like a way for the marketer who's marketing the mastermind to make money. But at the same time, it also gives you a reason so but did you give did you How can I reach out and get in touch with you? Eric finicky on LinkedIn? Okay, cool. It's really good. It's Eric at live cap. is my email and then Eric, connect to any of those platforms? Search rehab. If you Google my name, I'll probably come up. You can find me. Cool, man. Good. And he'll be awesome. We'll put all that in the show notes. Information, whatever information you shared here, we'll put in the show notes. But listen, hey, guys, thank you all for coming today. Yeah, me. Go ahead. I'm sorry. No, you're fine. Same thing, right. You can find me on LinkedIn email is V Qt at love cat I email is probably best for me. But either one works and what's Music Good Testaments. She's she's doing a lot of stuff with women entrepreneurship. And she's a really good role model for a lot of aspiring entrepreneurs real estate's male dominated, so it's tough. Well, I'll tell you, and I know that the hillbilly beard, really awesome look that I carry probably sells me as, as some masculine

Unknown Speaker  43:25  
God, which I tend to be in some circles.

Unknown Speaker  43:29  
I have I have two daughters. And two of my five kids are daughters. And

Unknown Speaker  43:37  
I'm constantly finding, trying to find ways

Unknown Speaker  43:42  
because this I know we're going a little further here than what we what we had anticipated. But I wasn't anticipating that comment from your because I think there's nothing in this world that infuriates me as a father, any more than hearing one of my daughters say, Only boys can do that, or I can't do that Daddy, I'm a girl. And I'm like, alright, you know, maybe you can't put on shoulder pads and a helmet and take a hit. You could, obviously, but

Unknown Speaker  44:12  
what I'm getting at is, is that in the entrepreneurial space, there is just as much room for women as there is men. There's just as much room for every color of everybody. There's just as much room for it's a mindset. And that's what I try to tell them and that's what I try to instill in my girls is that no, only you can't not do that because you're a girl, maybe you can't do that because you don't want to or you don't feel like you have the edge. You know, maybe you feel like you need to learn more about it before you do it. But the reason you can't do that is not because of your gender. So, I mean, we pretty humble about it, but she'll, you know, I think she won't speak for herself but you know using that to your advantage. I think until

Unknown Speaker  45:00  
Getting that negative and using it as a positive. And I think she does a really awesome job at it. And I know it's inspired other people out there. So I'd be doing this, if I didn't at least mention, well, wonderful. And I actually had a lady on the show a couple weeks ago and I just, I get all red faced talking about it, because I'm just like, it just it makes me mad that that, that, you know that they have that take at at 12 and 10 or 11 that came unraveled. They are, I love him to death. I can never remember how old they are. It's like it's always changing when you get five.

Unknown Speaker  45:31  
But anyway, well listen, guys, thank you all for being on the show today. I know. I know. It's oftentimes hard to within busy schedules, especially to get everybody on here at once. So I do appreciate you all being here. And I want to thank you and listeners if you like something what you heard today, reach out to Eric or V Veronique, which is a beautiful name, who by the way,

Unknown Speaker  45:52  
the sorry, I got to say that but it reach out and get in touch with them. If you heard something you want more information on, or you you have something that resonated with you. Also, if you could give us a five star review if you like what you're listening to, and you want for us to continue and be boosted in every way so we can spread our message and help people raise capital, learn the real estate business and further educate their financial goals. So thank you all and I appreciate everybody's time today.

Transcribed by

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Eric Panecki

Leverage Capital