In the 74th episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk with Brendan Chisholm, founder of BKC Holding, LLC. After being let go, Brendan began looking for alternative ways to invest his money. While going through the traditional route and starting with the stock...
In the 74th episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk with Brendan Chisholm, founder of BKC Holding, LLC. After being let go, Brendan began looking for alternative ways to invest his money. While going through the traditional route and starting with the stock market, he eventually started asking around and saw the advantages of real estate.
As an experienced business developer and program manager, Brendan is currently for a global telecom company in their real estate division, building strategic partnerships to identify untapped revenue opportunities through third-party partnerships. Today, Brendan is growing his portfolio by focusing on acquiring distressed and value-add Commercial Real Estate in emerging markets across the United States.
In this episode, we discuss:
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Casey Brown 0:07
Hey there and welcome to today's episode of cash flow pro your daily real estate investing podcast and YouTube channel. I'm here today with Brendon Chism of our Brandon, I forgot where are you from? It's somewhere down around Atlanta, right?
Unknown Speaker 0:24
No, I am from Stamford, Connecticut.
Casey Brown 0:28
Why Newnan, Georgia was where the first deal was. And I guess maybe I took that you were from down there from that entire discussion disregard that. He is from Connecticut, and he is with be Casey holding, LLC, which is a company that he started. And he's got some really, really good things to talk to us about today. Specifically surrounding the idea of I think we're going to talk about at least a little bit of off market, and then some other stuff about how he has, how he has acquired some of the properties that they now own. So Brendon apologize about the location issue there. But how are you today, sir?
Unknown Speaker 1:08
I'm doing wonderful, Casey,
Casey Brown 1:09
how are you? Oh, man, we couldn't be better. Like I told you earlier, my stepdad used to tell people when I was growing up, the kids aren't in jail, and my wife hadn't left me. So life is good. So that is the way everything is at least here in the Western Kentucky area. So how are things up there where you're at?
Unknown Speaker 1:30
Everything's going well. Boys are healthy wife, his wife is happy. And we're just focusing on rails. Nobody's in
Casey Brown 1:38
jail and awesome, man. That's great. So listen, Brandon, why don't you tell us a little bit about yourself, maybe your story. Obviously, at some point in your life, the idea of real estate had had poked its head up. Now I want to I want to preface all of this by saying, I'm going to tell the audience that Brendon took a little bit of a different route into the syndication multifamily business than most of us. So again, I am with the majority in how I think and rentals and so on and so forth. So Pat, and the rest of us. And so I can't wait to hear more about that and how that looked, or how you at least were able to dissect that and determine that maybe this other path was a little bit better for you. So tell us a little bit about yourself.
Unknown Speaker 2:33
Sure. Thanks, Casey. And thank you once again for having me on on the show. Absolutely an honor and a pleasure. So Brennan Chisholm. I'm originally from Northeast Massachusetts, about 20 miles north of Boston. I grew up there for first 18 years, then went to Syracuse University, to their business school there. Oh,
Unknown Speaker 2:57
I didn't know that. And sorry, we got to cut.
Unknown Speaker 3:02
That's fine. Three.
Casey Brown 3:05
I don't know, man, that whole orange thing. Just it I guess it rings too close to the Tennessee deal. So anyway, sorry to interrupt. Go ahead. We'll let you stay brother, we'll let you
Unknown Speaker 3:17
know. What did the business school there. I did what I could to pass and skate by and really just figured out a way to network and get down into after graduation, moved down to New York City, took an operations job with a parcel company in New York and worked there for nine months. And you know, nine months after being ironed. It was you know, Lehman Brothers collapsing in the teeth that the great recession and company's restructuring. So I got my first taste of being laid off by a company. Sure. So that was a nice rude awakening. But you know, being 2223 at the time, I thought that was pretty cool that I was being paid and you could party all I wanted and then veterans, took another job in operations with a rental car company and my whole mantra of the whole mantra that I was provided growing up is get your education, get a good job of climb the corporate ladder type of thing. So that's what I tried to do, quickly ascended up the ranks of there, multiple promotions throughout the throughout my time there, and then right around 2013, so five, six years after graduating from college, was promoted to a director level position, overseeing like the great late creation of the rental car industry. The rental car company had all intents and purposes to move back because my wife and I were doing long pool, my then girlfriend, now wife doing long distance relationships. She was still working in the New England area in New York City area. And I was in You know, just north of Detroit, right before I took a job offer with another company They laid me off. So six years, too late to do layoffs. And I really started getting better taste of trying to go up that corporate ladder anymore. However, this isn't the shift that everybody expects, I still thought it would be pretty cool to find another cool job working in that fortune 500 realm took another job with an auto manufacturer and from there did the same thing got a promotion pretty quickly, but it was exposed to different what I'm trying to get at as I wasn't trying to I was trying to figure out ways to generate alternative income. I'm getting you're making a little bit more money. I'm living with my now wife with that then girlfriend in in Hoboken, New Jersey, and still figuring out where can we put money into that's at first the stock market. And it went that way. At first. I had a pretty long drive to where I was working from there. So 45 minutes to try and started getting into this thing called podcast a hands. I just got a little set up just listening to fantasy sports all the time. No other means and I was introduced like bigger pockets and this and that. Okay, real estate's pretty cool. With the job with the auto manufacturer, I started going out to like car dealerships and talking to dealer principals and general managers. Where did you if you weren't, if you didn't inherit the dealership? Where do you make your money from? Every nine times out of 10? These guys made their money through real estate. Yep, like, Okay, how are you making your money through real estate like commercial deals? Yeah, this is pretty intriguing. This is pretty cool. So I jumped into my first or I think this was my first or second regroup, you know, real estate Meetup group. And it was probably the second one because the guy there talked about multifamily owning multifamily buying multifamily, and had that the concept of you're buying a business that is a tangible asset in real estate. And with my experience in the corporate America, you just look at a balance sheet figured out ways to make you make the business better, and there's tons of equity that you can make on it. So I was intrigued. And like, Okay, this might be this might be where I can go.
Unknown Speaker 7:38
So I took it as a means it would sign up for his class figured out how to get the blocking and tackling down where most people probably would have started buying the one unit doing a fix and flip trying to wholesale, working up to two to four families, I didn't want to do that. I don't like HGTV, I don't want to fix and flip. And I don't. And I think there's other means to be able to square scale quicker. So took two, three years of just learning the fundamentals of real estate and just focusing on that. And that's where, you know, I, to your point, I kind of just moved around the single family space and move straight into multifamily. Three years after taking that first class, we close on me and my partner's close on our first deal. And here we are ever since.
Casey Brown 8:29
Well, it's difficult a lot of times I know with at least it was with myself. And I assume that this is probably the same with with the majority of people that that that single family tends to filter people out going up into the multifamily. And I say filter people out in the respect of like, a lot of people either stay in the single family space, or they're like, Man, this sucks, and they get out. I got a I got an idea, there's probably it's probably split pretty evenly between those two people that stay and continue to move around in the single family space. But, but the idea that that that somebody like yourself could see the the scaling opportunity past where most of us make that stop and we're like, oh man, Dave the bank just keeps giving me money. And I just keep buying and and as long as you know, like, like you're buying single family residences. And of course, you know, I was never had anything over the, I'd say over the $100,000 mark, everything was $100,000 or below and and eventually that business hit a ceiling where you only have so much time you only have so much brain power you only have so much of the the non tangible assets that are that are things you and but man that's great to be able to see that scalability over that hill and just say man, let's So let's and especially the fact that you could, I don't know, if your partners, were they kind of doing the same thing, or had they been involved in the single family space had somebody warned you and said, Man, listen, this sucks, let's go on and move around. And if they didn't even that's even hire move that there was more than one person in the deal that could see the See,
Unknown Speaker 10:26
I saw the forest through the trees, I really grasped like the the passive income. And by no means what am I doing is passive, but with the ultimate goal of becoming passive chair, I love the idea of being able to work with business partners, not just in your general partnership group, but third party property management teams that do they built their infrastructure to be able to operate day to day due to day to day operations of a property. That's not my focus right now. But ultimately, you're getting there was and it's, you buy, you buy it to your point you I looked at the numbers, run the numbers, and where I'm from, it doesn't make a lot of sense to buy it. And if you're buying your rentals in my, in your where I am located, it's c minus d plus class, single families, and I just don't want to deal with that stuff right now.
Casey Brown 11:25
And that's the same, it's the same where I'm at to, I don't know, there's, there's a little there's probably a few more C than C minus, but man, it's the same deal. And it's not, you know, and that's the whole thing that you don't want to get involved in. It becomes a it becomes a management thing, really. And you don't necessarily want to because a lot of times, although the people are good people, they they tend to maybe they have I don't know how to really say that. But you know, they, there's just there's some, there's some challenges with paying rents. There's some challenges with then as from a management perspective, you're like changing light bulbs and the the sheer upkeep on some of these homes, just to give somebody a reasonable place to live. When I talk about like, you know, you don't want ceilings falling in I mean, not not for the fact that people don't want to live in it, but for the fact that it's health issues, and so on, so forth. So there's just a laundry list of things and I'm sure where you're located. See to see minus class stuff, single family rentals, is, I mean, you're probably still talking big money.
Unknown Speaker 12:41
Yeah. If you're gonna get duplex or triplex in some of these areas, a triplex in a place that's you know, an hour plus away from me is $200,000. And it's just it's a lot of doubt, it's a lot of money. And there's really everybody's looking for a burr and everybody's competing in the same space. Everybody wants to be everybody's read bigger pockets. Everybody's everybody's educated on what they need to do. So I just didn't think at this time based off where I was and what my goals were. I thought my main my I knew my main focus needed to be in multifamily. took me longer to get there, I could have bought a couple places. But I think just having that singular focus as to saying, This is my lane, this is what I'm gonna excel at. And that's what helped me to get to where I am today. Because there's, if you're looking at the iceberg, there's a little bit of the iceberg on top that you're seeing, but you're not seeing the whole everything beneath it as to what I put in over the course of those three years to hopefully make myself successful over the rest of my life.
Casey Brown 13:44
Yeah, at least set yourself up and then and then to get started. But yeah, man, that's, that's great. So let's transition here just a little bit and let's talk about investor funds. And what what did that look like? So, alright, so finding multifamily is the first feet here that we've obviously that's the direction that that you went that a lot of us didn't go and that's the first feed now the second feed is saying okay, hey, how do I pay for this stuff? And when you start saying, Okay, what at what point did syndication become like this? What point did the light bulb come on? What was the lay of the land like when you were like, Okay, I gotta figure out because obviously, you go and you go buy a $10 million deal. Some people have the $2 million down, they buy it yourself, they move on. Most people don't and so they go out and raise investor funds and not in and with that being said, if it was a $10 million property not but at what point did you kind of start putting those pieces together?
Unknown Speaker 14:51
I got asked to join the general partnership for the first indication that we joined. We were there were six six guys external partners on the deal. It was a $2 million equity raise. And
Casey Brown 15:04
so it was a $10 million property. And basically, it was 4.2. Y'all raise the equity to buy the property plus the repairs?
Unknown Speaker 15:14
Yeah. So we did it. We did a bridge to eight we're doing a bridge to agency deal on that. So we got a bridge loan, I think it was like 65%. LTC, don't quote me on the exact numbers, I'd have to look those up. But in between 60 and 65%. So we're going in conservatively, plus, we're raising working capital and rainy day funds all this stuff. Sure. And similar to the deal that we're doing, and oh, call in Rock Hill, but we're raising a substantial amount of money to make sure we can close and be a little more conservative to have that. Adjust the risk adjusted returns and limit the downside. But yeah, you do it for you keep on studying about real estate, you tell people you tell your parents, you tell your friends, you tell everybody, hey, I'm investing in real estate. There's there's a deal and there's a deal in the pipeline. Are you are you ready to go? Yeah, you're walking around like my my stuff don't stink, and it comes to the end of the day, it's Oh, man, I didn't raise that much money for a good thing. There's other general partners on this deal that helped close it. But like, all of us, were scouring our phone books every single day calling everybody Hey, I got this deal. This is what we're offering, are you interested so you have those conversations, and you get the lay of the land and you become more, you grow yourself organically to be able to have conversations with people that this is a safe alternative investment. by diversifying a portion of your funds, we don't want you to put all of your money in here, we want to diversify it, you can keep your money into Bitcoin, you can keep your money into stocks, but you would take some of that this is a good risk. This is a good inflation risk that we were trying to promote a year ago that we're promoting in the beginning of the year when we bought bought this deal and we'll be able to proponent more look at you know, you're essentially buying a tangible asset in the land a fixed rate bond that has higher upside and equity to it.
Casey Brown 17:09
Yeah, so Well, that's what I was trying to tell people is is that you know, the soda company your your mutual fund own stock and could go broke tomorrow. And yeah, you're gonna have some tech you're gonna have some tangible assets, manufactures assets, and some real estate and stuff involved. There's obviously a hard cost there. But with a with a piece of real estate, you know, you should theoretically have insurance obviously, on the asset that's actually there, but you always have the dirt you no matter how you look at it, the dirt is always there and can't be basically taken away. I mean, obviously, I guess, could be a victim of the city changing zoning or something like that, but it's nevertheless I mean, it's you still have that and it's it becomes a just an alternative asset. And actually, I had a guy this morning was like, well, what's the difference? And I know this is just kind of going off a little bit here off the cuff but one of the things that we all the main question that I get are one of the main questions that I always get is well what's the difference in this and a REIT or, you know, real estate investment trust and, and I always say, you know, you're basically getting, you're basically getting the REIT you're investing retail money right into a deal for with you. And money is getting you directly the retail return, not getting the REIT the return in the REIT takes all of their stuff out and then you kind of get what's left at the end of the day and stock value or dividends. And so it's retail for retail instead of retail for some watered down wholesale money comes back does that make sense?
Unknown Speaker 19:01
Yeah, no, it makes perfect sense. And like if you look at it from if you invest in a REIT, you invest in Simon property, you invest in Starwood, all of these, you're gonna get six to 7% returns. Yes, it's a good return, however, but yeah, there's no equity upside and there's no tax efficiencies that you're able to create with it. We're doing we're going in we're doing costs excise, we're doing bonus depreciation. So if you're looking, you're bringing in $100,000. And you have you could have potentially a negative k one. And that is what creates it and there's that is the wonders of being able to invest with these multifamily syndications. And to your point, you have equity upside available to you. The best ones in the business are able to say I will give you 6% And you'll be happy with it. That's that's where the Star Wars in the Simon's come in. But like for people like you and me, Casey, we're figuring out ways to carve our way up They're, and hopefully eventually be able to, hey, you still want to invest in me, I can buy your tangible assets, you may begin to get to that six to 7%. But right now, we're trying to educate our people to be able to say, if you continue to put money in with us, we're going to make the highest and best use out of it for this alternative asset and create tax efficiencies can create monthly, monthly or quarterly cash flow with profit upside.
Casey Brown 20:22
And at the same time, you know, I was talking, this is just these conversations just continue to come the same direction. But the other day, we were talking about the fact that you and I as syndicators, we have to basically, every time one of our clients takes moves forward one inch in our process, we have to remind him of the risks and and we you know, and the risks, hey, there's risks, hey, there's risks. Hey, nice to see you again, today, there's risks. And then and with the REITs, and so on, they're, they're able to just kind of, you know, they let the trading platforms or whatever, put forward a 87 page disclaimer, and that counts as as their their risk disclosure or whatever. And it's just like, Come on, man. I mean, you know, we're out here where there's no difference in US competing for the same now that we're doing institutional quality, kind of there's, you know, what's the difference? There's, there's not one now, again, I guess there's a little bit of of some risk in individual operators, I guess, if you will. But at the same time, it's it's there's, there's still no, they're still less risk to me, I think, especially with the potential for reward on the other side. Now, the some of these underwriting models that I've seen lately, some of that could begged to be different than what we're talking about. Right. But at the same time, you know, that's why I think some of these people need to be researching a little deeper into maybe that's why they're there. They're making us disclose risk, so many different
Unknown Speaker 22:07
points. There's risk involved with every asset. And as you continue to have conversations with LPs, the first group was like, some of your friends are like, Yeah, I'll just throw in $25,000. Now you're getting into like high net worth individuals that are sophisticated. Yeah, they under they don't need to worry about the private placement memorandum that they're going through. They're like, Brendan, I know, there's risk involved with this asset. However, I've looked at your underwriting, it's conservative. Yeah, there's a good business plan in place. I like it. If you my downside risk is, you know, an 8% IRR versus what we're promoting between like 12 and 16%. Okay, yeah.
Casey Brown 22:44
That's just just for her. Firstly, I was three years ahead of underwriting correct, because it was such a good deal. And then I've obviously I'm sure a market shift has taken care of has helped push that has been a little bit of a catalyst for that, but at the same time, that's what you said, right?
Unknown Speaker 23:04
Right. Yeah, we're 30. Based off our last lease up, we're 40% ahead of underwriting from where we were underwriting to. And so we were we were underwriting to 975. In a market sub market that's 30 miles outside of Georgia, it's renting for $1,400. But we're not going in putting lipstick on these deals, we're you know, this isn't your value add that everybody likes that, hey, you can put $5,000 and you can capture X amount more now we're going with, we're going to with 20,000 plus dollars per unit and changing appliances, putting it all in one washer dryer, and completely repositioning the property to make it a more where the people
Casey Brown 23:45
one of the biggest dangers of this of one of the biggest dangers I see on the other side of this wherever we're whatever part of the mountain you want to call us at right now. One of the biggest dangers that I see has been the a lot of people have have somehow gotten the line skewed between repositioning and value add that line has gotten a little blurry for a lot of on a lot of different deals because people are like they're going in and 80% of their strategy is to raise the rents 20% of their strategy is to add quality of life things to the asset. And so when you go in and 80% of your strategy is to go from from a from $800 to $1,200 a month or 1000 to $1,200 a month. Man that's dangerous because that's to me that that's a piece of paper that's like that's not real goods that people are actually getting a a quote from and when when you go in now all of a sudden now rather than than you had a happy tenants flow, you've got about 25%. And they're pissed off every day, because now their rents gone up. So you take that 25%, and let's just, let's push them, let's, let's say they move out. Now you've got, you have to replace them, which is some cost involved, but then at the same time, now you're here. And it's like, okay, what do you do when when the, the economy shifts?
Unknown Speaker 25:29
Right? Always gonna go up?
Casey Brown 25:32
Well, yeah, and it's, there's a heck of a lot easier for it, it's a heck of a lot easier for it to go down. And it is up that same time. I mean, it's, you know, you bump in there, and you go up for dollars, $200 a month, and people may pay it now. But at the same time, the guy down the road, the that didn't necessarily underwrite to that, or maybe, of course, I'm assuming or another syndicator, whatever. But they didn't underwrite to that model. They underwrote to a 70% quality of life shift, and now he has a pool and you don't, and his rent, he's able to come down a little easier on his rent, man, they're gonna jet. And that's you just you have to expect that. So I see that as one of the biggest dangers of some of these models. And so but you're but you're at a point with that first property, you're talking about where you could you could stand a 50% draw back and still be okay.
Unknown Speaker 26:37
Yeah, it's really, it's trusting your underwriter to and our lead acquisition guys are, you know, they're top notch with what they're trying to do. One of them as a private equity background, you cut his teeth with one of one of the large REITs that we were just discussing. And it's, we could have bought a lot more deals by making the numbers, you fudge the numbers and saying, Yeah, we're gonna achieve rent growth in 10%, year, one 10%, year to 10%, year three to make the numbers work, but you have a fiduciary responsibility to people once you start taking their money, and you need to execute on your business plan. Yeah, and having a realistic business plan. And this is this is for both multifamily syndications as well as your day to day job. If you if you don't have something it you're not going to be able to sleep at night. Yes.
Casey Brown 27:26
Well, there's gonna come a point where you don't, or you can't. You might today, you might get that acquisition fee today, but you got to $4 million, Bing and 1% acquisition fee on. I mean, that's don't get me wrong, it's decent money. But but but I mean, that's, that's not gonna go real far on those sleepless nights
Unknown Speaker 27:44
in most of these. I'm not sure how you guys do your model. But we're not we're not in this for we're not fixing and flipping. Yeah, multifamily syndications, where
Casey Brown 27:54
you get rid of that, that you almost have to take that and take it out back and shoot it and leave. This is
Unknown Speaker 28:02
not we're not doing two to three year olds, we're doing a two to three year exit, we have two to three years worth of execution or so that we try to bring into 1230 months, we find the deal put 10 years seven to 10 years worth of debt on it. And let it cashflow make it a great long term asset that you get you we return your capital back to you at it a certain percentage back to you at the refi. And then with the way we would write it onto our underwater, our underwriting is we do a APR, we do a European waterfall, which is you GP doesn't get their promote until you return 8% IRR 7% IRR. So if it's year two, we need to return $116,000 of your capital before we get into the promote. Yeah, we invest in the deals as well. So we are seeing that, but it's the it's back to the we need to have realistic business plans because we want to get to get to that promote, and
Casey Brown 29:03
oh, you want everybody to make money in the deal. Because the cost of acquiring new investors to replace investors that are pissed off and left is far greater than if you just give an extra 10 or 15% of what's the gross or the net money, pass it back out amongst the I mean, I just that to me, that's just it's crazy, that a lot of people will burn bridges that then they have to rebuild only with different people. And it's just It's nuts. So, but listen, alright, Brandon, I've got a couple of questions that we ask every guest that comes on the show. And for the listeners. I know some of the number talk can be a little bit a little dry at times, unfortunately, it's part of what we have to do as real estate syndicators. So if you're looking at getting into this space, or you're looking at investing in this space, this is all Although kind of mono, not real high drama, high entertainment, this is stuff that you have to know, in order to make sure that you're that you're following what we're trying to get what we're trying to teach you here so that you can make wise investments, make good investments. And I guarantee you Brendan here has has just told you a lot of secrets, especially with his stuff. And of course, he has available investments as well. But anyway, alright, so Brandon, we have a couple of questions we ask every guest that comes on the show. The first one is what is the best book that you've recently read or are currently reading?
Unknown Speaker 30:41
So I'm reading a ready fire aim by Michael Masterson right now it is his Michael Masterson is business gurus built multiple multimillion dollar businesses. And his whole mantra in this book is get your boots on start selling, started going dark going up in sell yourself. And I really, I'm about 100 pages into it, then he's thinking about like, what your optimum selling strategy is. And you me we sell limited partnerships in sound investments. And Trenton love that that's that's basic core of what we're doing so
Casey Brown 31:17
well, they always say, and then part of when I was starting my podcast, I kept the you know, I had a little bit of, of what do they call that? impostor syndrome? A little bit of over analysis, paralysis or whatever, you know, there's all kinds of different things. But but the one thing that people kept saying is, are the one thing that kept ringing in my head that I say people, people in my head kept saying, episode one is better than episode zero. And it's the same. It's the same take on that ready fire aim. And it wasn't until I was about 30 episodes deep, where I was really like, Okay, you start kind of, you start kind of finding your voice, you start kind of figuring out what people want. And it's the same way what you're talking about, man. I mean, that's, but that's great. And that's exactly what you did. I mean, pretty much even before the book,
Unknown Speaker 32:16
right? So highly recommend it. 100 pages, and I'll let you know how the other 300 pages are, but something everybody should pick up.
Casey Brown 32:25
Awesome, man. That's great. Um, the next question is, what is a dream vacation you have either taken or hoped to take
Unknown Speaker 32:33
my wife and I keep on saying we're gonna go to Hawaii, but I think that's going on for our 10 year anniversary now.
Casey Brown 32:39
Cool, man, that's a good trip. But if you're in Connecticut, dude, I'm gonna tell you that I've heard a lot of people that have went over there from Central timezone. And you're even an hour behind us that the flights over there are long they take forever to get there. And then when you get there, it's like you're on you're almost in a different world basically, because of the timezone shifts.
Unknown Speaker 33:04
So the ultimate plan for the next year over the next five years we're having our five year anniversary this year, she she will be retired by the time she gets to if she wants to for our 10 year anniversary, and I'll be full time into this.
Unknown Speaker 33:16
So that that'd be great, man.
Unknown Speaker 33:20
When we do week this is bring the boys and you know spend spend a month plus over
Casey Brown 33:25
there. Oh, okay, now we're talking. Now you're talking my language because that's what and he'll man go over there and be digital nomads for a month, just just move around and shift around and see a lot of people make the mistake of going from Central timezone over there for like, a week, even a week is like, is just no, that's not that's not anything but yeah, man, you'll have an eight year old and a six year old and five years and, and yeah, don't forget what I told you about those after they turned four. responds. I'm just kidding. Now. Kids are great. I love mine. I always talk mess about them. And but anyway, so Brendan, tell the listeners if there's something that they've heard that resounded with them and they'd like to reach out to you or reach out to you possibly talk to you about maybe even your next investment deal or check it out. How can they do that?
Unknown Speaker 34:19
Sure. You can find me on my website at WWW dot PKC holding.com best.
Casey Brown 34:28
As my listeners are aware, I'm always looking for plurals and non plurals, but it's holding me Casey holding.com.
Unknown Speaker 34:36
And you can reach me at Brandon at PKC holding.com. Or you can call me at 978-835-9376. Part of selling is picking up the phone and talking to people. I love to talk to people. I love the concept of these podcasts. I think what you're doing here is great Casey and educating everybody and yet we're working tirelessly to find a deal but the numbers need to work for us and the numbers need to work for are investors to have that risk adjusted return in a choppy, choppy, volatile market right now?
Casey Brown 35:06
Absolutely. All right. Well, Brandon, thank you so much for taking the time to be with us. Listeners, if you don't mind to leave a five star review if you like what you've heard today and also hit that subscribe button, because we are always grateful to our listeners on a daily basis. And again, Brendan, thank you so much.
Unknown Speaker 35:25
Thanks, Casey. Appreciate it.
Unknown Speaker 35:26
Transcribed by https://otter.ai