In this episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk with Dan Haberkost. Dan began his career in real estate at the tender age of 16! Having worked throughout high school and college, he realized he did not want his whole life to revolve around work. He was...
In this episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk with Dan Haberkost. Dan began his career in real estate at the tender age of 16! Having worked throughout high school and college, he realized he did not want his whole life to revolve around work. He was craving financial freedom; we all know the best way to do it is through passive income.
Dan spends his time on development, land investing, and consulting. He also shares his real estate experience on his website - danhaberkost.com. But today, he will share some of his wisdom with us on the podcast.
In this episode, we discuss:
Make sure to tune in on this episode to find out more!
Find your flow,
Resources mentioned in this podcast:
Casey Brown 0:00
Let's do it Hey there and welcome to today's episode of cash flow Pro, your daily real estate investing podcast and YouTube channel. I am here today with Dan hammer cost for some reason, I wanted to say Derrick, but I got it right, because I was able to look down on my paper fast enough and call him Dan. So I got it right as my listeners are well aware, names are something I tend to butcher and get wrong most of the time, but I always try to make it right. But Dan is with us from Colorado Springs, Colorado. And as my listeners are well aware, that is where I called home for several years. So I know the area very, very well, he is with front range land. And we are going to talk about basically some business principles, probably more so than we are syndicating or, you know, we're usually talking about syndicating capital raising, and we get some one off subjects. But the reason why I think Dan's message is going to be valuable is because he has basically very defined business, the ways that he takes stuff in and the ways that he disposes of it or gets rid of it, or sells and otherwise, and then even just take a step further in the processes that are involved after that. So Dan, welcome to the show.
Unknown Speaker 1:24
Yeah, Casey, thanks for having me. That was fun chatting with you a bit about Colorado. It's cool to talk with someone who knows the places and markets I'm doing a lot of business in.
Casey Brown 1:33
Yes, sir. And I'll tell you, for those that don't know, the listeners that don't know, Colorado Springs in particular, although Denver, Colorado Springs and Pueblo, that whole i 25. Area has just exploded. I left there in 2000. And, you know, we're talking about cities extending 1520 miles outside of where they were when I left. So so, you know, when you start looking at the growth on a per year basis. It really, really has just it's very intriguing to see and watch. And, and you said you moved there in 2018? Correct. Yep, that's right. So I mean, and even in that time span into now, hey, you know, you're probably talking, you know, a considerable amount of growth just in that little bit of time. So Well, Well, Dan, tell us a little bit about yourself, where you came from how you ended up in Colorado Springs of all places. And then what what your business is looking like?
Unknown Speaker 2:34
Sure. So to rewind, when I was 16, I was managing a portfolio rentals, along with a farm for my boss at the time, and he would go to a Roomba and leave me to handle everything. And in hindsight, he was a bit of a slumlord. So that taught me about the type of real estate I did not want to own. Yeah, I remember ripping up a carpet on a hot, humid, Ohio summer day, it's covered in some sort of animal feces. And then a year later was back at that same house ripping up the carpet again. So yeah, he had a very confrontational dynamic with his tenants and just didn't take care of the property. So again, he just didn't do it, right. But I worked that job through high school. And that taught me a lot doing that at a young age, managing people at the farm, I learned a lot from him. And then in college, I worked full time while going to school full time so that I could pay for it. And I ran a landscaping company, and it was around 20 ish years old that came from a lower middle class background in very rural Ohio, everyone got some sort of, you know, handyman job, or they were an electrician or something like that. They worked 40 5060 hours a week for the rest of their lives. And that was that I did not want to fall into that same pattern is that hey, if I can run this, this landscaping company and work or and go to school full time, I can certainly figure out some sort of business to start so that I can have some freedom have some flexibility over my time and life. And so sort of reading about stocks read about different businesses. And like everyone else, I read Rich Dad, Poor Dad, and it was like a light bulb went off. So I bought a duplex when I was in college. I was 21 years old. It was a house hack. Shortly thereafter, I came to visit my brother in Colorado. And love the mountains love the sun just loved everything about it out here. So I went home, quit my job, gave my duplex to a property manager and drove across the country bought another house hack out here. And it was right around that time that I realized, hey, the low and no money down stuff is great to sell courses and books. But in reality, this is a capital intensive venture. And if I want to buy a bunch of rental properties, I need to figure out how to make a substantial income. So I also just hated working for someone. I still had a job at the time. Yeah, long story short, I met a guy at the local real estate group out here that I actually host now who had been doing land and development for the last 40 years. He was the one I was telling you grew up in Lakewood. And so I he lives in Pueblo West. Now I would go down there and Every weekend, drive an hour, work with him work for him just learn from him. And after a good amount of time, I started to just do business with him and then eventually go off and do it on my own. So as of today, front range land is my company and what that entails is direct to seller marketing for land, and we're talking infill lots, I'm not doing anything with raw land, I'm not getting entitlements or bringing in utilities. I'm going after land that already has all that done. Yep. And so I just have a big funnel leads coming in at 30 to 50 cents on the dollar for buildable infill, infill lots, some of them I assigned, some of them I'll put a house on, some of them will close and sell for cash or sell on notes. But it's really just dependent on the specific lot and what works best and my situation at the time. But it's a great funnel and system because now I have land notes coming in every month flips and assignments and then more infrequent but but much larger chunks of cash in the form of builds. And then that feeds the passive investing and acquisition of more rental properties. So I'm 26 And that's where I'm at today.
Casey Brown 6:01
Man, that's awesome. Now how many doors are your is your rental property business up to?
Unknown Speaker 6:06
So I have 13 tenants amongst six properties. Technically, it's only seven doors, but two of the rentals our house has rented room by room. Gotcha. And I can get tenants with I have a dentist renting a bedroom from me with an 800 credit score, there's such a lack of housing, that 750 has become the standard for a credit score. So Wow.
Casey Brown 6:24
Yeah. And that's the, you know, it's just it's unbelievable to me, and and look, you know, for the listeners out there, you know, this episode is being recorded early June. So for the listeners out there, look at your local real estate market, stop what you're doing right now look around your local real estate market and realize that the Colorado particularly that I 25 market is probably 10 times more in higher demand than probably where you're sitting at right now. So it's it's very, very, it's just just one of those things, man, like you said, You've got one of the 800 credit score written the how it written a bedroom from you in a house and it's just man, those those that's just unfathomable. Really, the people just can't find something or if they do find something that's priced way too high, but likely, he you know, it could be like the rest of us are just sitting here kind of waiting, not wanting to pay too much and, and on a retail level. But nevertheless, um, so let's talk a little bit about these infill lots. And I know that prior to the show, we talked about Pueblo West specifically. But where do you how do you have where's your deal flow coming from?
Unknown Speaker 7:37
Sure. So mail is number one, I do a mix of a straightforward offer letter in an envelope, handwritten envelope. And then I switch that out assuming that I'm in a market I know is already producing with postcards, because some people never open the mail. So I've always found that I get additional deals from the postcards after sending a few mailers. And I like to be really straightforward. So both the postcard and the offer letter, have a price says Hey Casey, I see your lot at such and such, I'll buy it at x price, pay all closing costs and close in a couple of days and just have a notary sent directly to you. So really straightforward. And I also have some cold calling going now but the mail has been the bread and butter. And it's interesting with land when you think of direct to seller you typically think distress. But I have found I've done almost 100 land deals at this point. It is more wealthy and apathetic than it is poor and distressed. It's you know, it's like the other day, I just got a bunch of furniture at a firehouse fire sale price because this lady had a lot of money. She was moving in with her husband who had even more money or newly new husband, and she just wanted to get rid of the furniture in the house didn't want to deal with moving it. So I got a bunch of nice new furniture at 10 cents on the dollar. It's the same thing with land. More often than not, I'm getting deals from wealthy baby boomers than I am from anyone in distress.
Casey Brown 8:57
Wow. And so obviously you're you're getting them the lists from a PVA or property office or something like that.
Unknown Speaker 9:06
Yeah, yeah. So prop stream, and then tax lien lists. There are some percentage of the deals that are distressed from the tax lien list, but it's mostly just out of state out of county owners, you know, 10 or 20 plus years, not listed on the MLS because then you're you're targeting people who bought this land a long time ago expecting to move and build. And for whatever reason life got in the way and they didn't. And so now it's just a pain in there, but they're paying taxes on it. And if you make it easy for them, if a notary will just show up at their house, they'll take convenience over retail value very often.
Casey Brown 9:38
Yeah. Now why? So? How do you decide what your offer letter is going to say when it says a value on it? Because here's here's my to add a little context to that question as to why I'm asking that. I have a friend of mine here locally, who owns two 12 acres. Okay, now the 12 Acres is likely, in all reality sitting right here where I'm at right now. Sorry, I had it right there. Sitting right here where I'm at right now the 12 Acres is worth probably conservatively 120 $250,000. Okay? Well, he gets a letter in the mail, much like what you're talking about, and it said, Hey, I will send a notary to your house today, I'm interested in buying your 12 acres, and I will give you $18,000 for it. And while it just it was, it was almost to the degree of like, why did they even waste their stamp? Yeah, um, and so I know that that you want to deal and to make any money, you have to have a deal. But where is that? What's the what's the methodology behind. And I'm not saying that was your letter at all. So I'm not wanting to tie that to you. I'm just saying that, that that's the kind of thing that sometimes these things carry along.
Unknown Speaker 11:00
I'm so glad you brought this up. Because Okay, so most of the courses teaching this and most of the people doing this are going off to after raw land, acreage, recreational land, and they're using there's a couple of different systems, you can pay for that use data from the county assessor's site, so that you can just type in I want to pay, you know, 40 cents per acre, and then all there are 4040 cents on the dollar per acre, and then all their letters will be 40 cents per dollar on the acre, but they're just relying on statistics and data from the assessor site. And they're dealing with 1000s of lots that are all different. That's the beauty of infill. Right, the first introduction I got into land was from that mentor I was telling you about who was building so I was involved in building of houses before going after and flipping lots. And so he taught me a lot about infill lots and for your audience. What I mean by that is, as opposed to going after acreage, or raw land, I'm dealing with lots that are within a subdivision where somebody already put the time, capital and frankly, pain in the ass to take a huge tract of raw land, bringing the entitlements, roads, utilities, all of that zoning, and I'm going after it when it's shovel ready, which means all of that upfront work is done, it's ready to be built on. So the beauty of that is I'm dealing with tracts of 1000s a lot that are almost identical, same zoning, same size, same topography, same utility situation. So it's very, very easy to price. So big picture, that's the type of land I'm going after. From there, it depends on how hot the market is. So like in Florida, oftentimes 50 to 60 cents on the dollar is more where you're getting deals, as opposed to some other markets where it's much lower. So I'll approximate the offer letter somewhere in there, right, I'll go on Prop stream, I'll pull the list of a section of town where the zoning size and so on and so forth, they're all exactly the same. And then I'll do a 50 cents on the dollar offer. And it's more of an art than a science. Sometimes you'll mess it up. There was one time down in Colorado city inherent here in Colorado, my mail house messed up and added a zero to my land offer letter. And we still got a deal out of it. Because we said hey, I'm so sorry, this was a mistake. It was supposed to be this. And we still got a deal. So more than anything if someone's hesitating to get started, because they're not sure what to offer. Just get your mail out and you learn as you iterate. But yeah, it's easier for me to price because I'm going after infill lots that are all the same generally.
Casey Brown 13:27
Well, what you just said makes perfect sense. Because I think part of the reason and this whatever company that was that sent those mailers likely made one of those types of errors because our our agricultural land is taxed at about a 10th of what it's really worth. And so that would make sense as because I had forever knocked around in my mind as to where in the world they would have ever came up with that figure. And so our land is taxed at about 10% of what it's really worth or our agricultural land that is. And then so I'm sure that they did exactly what you just said, they were like, well, we want to pay 50 cents on the dollar. Well, they didn't know that they were already getting that that was already priced at a 90% discount based on the values of the land coming from the tax office. So yeah, that's very interesting. Very, very intriguing. Take on all of that. So, so yeah, and when you're looking at it like that, and a lot of people say, Well, he's paying 50 cents on the dollar, you know, but at the same time, you know, there is some risk involved. Have you ever bought a lot that that didn't end up being what you thought it was? Yeah. Oh,
Unknown Speaker 14:40
gosh. So I I actually am doing the talk at the Real Estate Group tonight. I'm gonna go through this. I have made mistakes regarding soil quality was a big problem I ran into so you know, Pueblo West, there was a time I got a lot under contract, and the next door Lot had this massive pile of shale. So there's an example Looking on Google Earth, sometimes the grade looks far, far more mild than it is in person. And again, if there's a huge hill, we're talking about lots that people want to build on. That's a big expense when it comes to the excavation, grading and getting a pad site, so people will pay a lot less. Gosh, down in Colorado city, I ran into a street that had the waterline, but the sewer line just stopped. And then those lots were well under an acre. So you couldn't do a septic. So yeah, there's all kinds of things that pop up. I've never crossed across the fingers. I've never lost money on a land deal. But I have done somewhere, I certainly made less than expected or very little.
Casey Brown 15:38
Sure, sure. Yeah. And that's, that's, that's typical. I mean, especially when you're because operating a business like that, at scale is always what's so difficult, because, like I was, like I told you about out here, where we're at, we don't operate on the townships in the sections and the perfectly square anything, we operate on the metes and bounds and the metes and bounds, you know, you could have a you could buy something you thought you got to steal on it and find out a it's in a flood zone or be the lots about a third as big as you thought it was because it hadn't been surveyed since you know, it was it had a line that ran from a painted rock to a rotten stump. That was that was how they defined the corners. And so when you have obviously and they were defined in 1926, so do you think that painted rock or that rotten stump is still there? So that's why it's so intriguing. But but to it comes down to really knowing your zoning, and I'm sure knowing exactly what you're looking at out there. But I assume that your letter probably gives you some leeway, some legality leeway from from really jumping in there and saying, Hey, this is this is what we, you know, maybe some fine print at the bottom that says, hey, this, you know, this offer could fluctuate depending upon due diligence or something like that. Exactly, you
Unknown Speaker 17:03
know, verification of back taxes, liens, parcel size, zoning everything. Yeah, so and I have used it as an official contract a couple of times, we had people actually fax them back, and their title company out here access access to them. So just make it making it easy. We used it. But the vast majority of the time one of my acquisitions managers, or we send over just a more normal contract with more contingencies and such in there.
Casey Brown 17:29
Sure, sure. I've actually had those deals. And I wonder if you have to where you don't ever even have time to get a contract done. Usually somebody calls and says, hey, I'll take this, but I want to close it as fast as possible. And you're in good with the title company, or you're in good with the attorney and you just boom, boom, boom, boom, boom, get it done. Move on. We've had those a time or two.
Unknown Speaker 17:49
Yeah, I, when I first started, I was in Colorado city, and the market was really cheap. There were a number I just did where I recorded the deeds and met the person in person.
Casey Brown 17:59
Just yeah, yeah. Yep. And get them done and knock them out. And that way, you just Yeah, especially you just out here, you've got to be careful of some older, older lien stuff. And because our property descriptions are considerably like said, they're considerably more difficult here than than they are the further west you go. And if you don't believe me, just look at a US map and see how square things are the further west you go. to square up, you know, I'm saying that was for the list or not you I know, you know, because you said you also work in you also have some stuff in Florida. Is that right?
Unknown Speaker 18:29
Yeah. So at the beginning of this year, Pablo West put a moratorium on new builds and new water taps. Water Rights are an issue out here, quite the contrary to Florida. Anyways, it has since opened up, but that caused me to pivot very quickly. And with land again, I think about this a little bit differently, or a lot differently than buy and hold investing, buy and hold investing, I want to be in desirable areas where people are moving, but where there's constraints on supply, right? I don't want to be in a place where it's easy to build. And there's 1000s of vacant lots that can be bought cheaply and built on for the buy and hold. I do want to be there to buy and sell land potentially build some spec houses, right in that context. I feel like I'm just selling the shovels in a gold rush. So Florida fits that very, very well. I'm down in southwest Florida, got some assignments closing this month and buy, buy and resell and might build houses down there. But I'm a little more hesitant. I can still build here. So I'm keeping the specs going here. And potentially we'll build some houses down there.
Casey Brown 19:29
We'll see. Good deal. Now. How did you start? How did you begin to get some deal flow down there? Same way.
Unknown Speaker 19:34
Yeah, same way just land offer letters, postcards and cold calling. And that's
Casey Brown 19:39
great. And that's that just seems to be kind of the go to for you. I mean, especially if you're getting shovel ready stuff in southwest Florida right now. That's a That's a tough nut to crack for a lot of people.
Unknown Speaker 19:52
Yeah, well, I do have an advantage a little bit in that one of my friends owns a mail house and I get handwritten letters at the cost of normal letters. So that that does To help but, you know, like anything, if you're consistent with it, you get deals. I had a guy call me that's probably gotten 20 Some mailers from me in the last three years down in Pueblo West. He's ready to liquidate all of his lots. Right. So just being consistent and present and then having an online, you know, if he looks up, let's look this up, you'll see our website, that helps as well. A lot of people think they mail someone. And that's that. No, if you have a market that's producing, yeah, I would mail it every three months, that has worked very well for me with different sorts of mailers, and then cold call as well. So I
Casey Brown 20:34
I've always been a big proponent of there's, I Well, and I say proponent of because it's just something that actually came natural to me, and it's absentee owners, absentee owners is just kind of, I found that niche several years ago. And you're right, that it's difficult to mail absentee owners but but I've always said the people that can talk to somebody when they don't have anything to say, are the people that make the most amount of money. Does that make sense? So if you can come up with an excuse to talk to somebody, you're gonna eventually make money off of, I had this talk with my wife the other night, she's getting a real estate sales business. I said, I'm gonna tell you right now, she said, I can't believe so and so did business with so and so I said, I'm telling you right now write it down, the very first thing I learned in the real estate business, the person is going to do business with the last real estate agent that touched period into story. I don't care if it's your own mother. No, I'm just kidding. Not your own mother. But I'm just saying Yeah. And that goes for basically every other business, you think of think about how a lot of times if you're the past person, you kind of get rocks thrown at you because people are having to justify why they're not using you because they don't really have a reason other than somebody else just came along. Sure. And so it's it's it's the same way, man. And if you were to if you were to not be quite as relentless as you had man and held up, and somebody else stepped in there and started sending letters. Man didn't take much and you're out.
Unknown Speaker 22:04
Yeah, yeah. Agreed. Agreed. No. And in the follow up along that whole line of thinking, I, gosh, I don't have the numbers exactly. But a lot of our deals, I have my acquisitions managers, if someone showed interest, responded to a mailer, and then disappeared, they follow up until we either get a signed contract or an FAQ. I have them follow up, we've gotten deals on the 40 of follow up. I don't do it anymore. But back when it was me calling, I remember one of the best deals I've ever gotten. in Pueblo West, specifically, I probably followed up 50 plus times ended up buying it 10 and selling 36.
Casey Brown 22:39
So certainly working. Yeah, I mean, and the whole thing is, is that, you know, I had somebody and then this again, goes back to the real estate sales business. And when you actually sit down, and you divide out so you work, like let's say how many those calls you You did 40 calls, let's say they took two minutes apiece, that's 80 minutes, right? An hour and 20 minutes, plus or minus your cost of whatever systems to keep track of it and all that. But but really take that $26,000 that you made, and divide it out amongst the actual time you spent on that one particular deal. And it's like, ridiculous, I mean, you know, it's just the fact of the matter is, is if we could all produce that every minute of every day we would be we wouldn't be worrying about getting our next customer we would be spending life on our on our on our yacht somewhere. And that's what I'm getting at. And I always try to tell people when somebody comes in, they're like, how do I, how do I make this go? And I'm like, Okay, how much time have you actually spent trying to make that go? And they're like, well, a week ago, last Wednesday, I spent 10 minutes and I'm like, exactly, there's your problem. You don't you're not relentless about keeping things moving forward, paying attention to where you're at today, realizing what moves the market. And the one thing in my letters, I always realized move the market was FOMO Fear Of Missing Out and that was sending a letter with the idea that, hey, we need to talk about this because you might miss out on where this market is today. If we don't move forward, and let her writings in very intriguing thing, and I'm gonna step back to I hate to take more time. I want you to talk some more because I want to I want to get a couple other ideas from you. But I'm going to tell you that you hit on one of my biggest, like people in the real estate business that I've coached and talked to over the years, I tell them don't even worry about sending a letter to anybody, unless there's some degree of handwritten on it, whether that's a handwritten envelope, whether that's a now, I'm a proponent of a blue signature at the bottom of every page of of every letter, I have a real stamp on the corner. And not a bulk mail a real stamp on the corner, a blue ink signature on the letter itself and a mail merge letter at that that says, Dear Mr. hypocaust, I am. Here we are. Now, you said you have handwritten letters, which I know. But tell us a little bit more about that and why you think it works? Because I know why it works. But
Unknown Speaker 25:40
yeah, well, especially right now. And especially in Florida, it's no secret that Florida is growing, a lot of people are down there. And so you got to think how do I differentiate myself from all the other people sending mail making calls, so on and so forth? And and for me, specifically, handwritten letters have been a big part of that. Because who doesn't open a handwritten letter Iowans Do you know, I throw out everything else. And then additionally, for me specifically, having a website, it's not great. It's very simple, but it shows houses were building. And it creates a level of legitimacy that a lot of other people trying to go after land don't have
Casey Brown 26:20
to have it. $100 a year. Yeah, that's
Unknown Speaker 26:24
just gonna seem gutter bucks a year, not even, it's not great. But it doesn't matter. Because there's, yeah, it serves its purpose. And that's been great, too. Because again, a lot of other people going after land have no presence. They're just trying to flip it. And so that's another differentiator with me, I actually have the cash, I buy almost all my lots, I've very rarely done assignments. And again, most of my competition doesn't have money. And so they are trying to just assign so I can legitimately say Casey, I will close in five days through the title company, cash deal right now. And so that helps a lot too. So specifically within land, those couple of things have helped a lot. And then just being consistent over the long term, like we already hit on is hard to go wrong with and probably the last thing I haven't hit on that I want to hit on is if you try and go to Denver, or Tampa or Los Angeles, right, one of the major metros, this is really, really tough. So I think about okay, where are people flocking? And then because of all that growth and subsequent price growth in the major metros, where are people getting pushed to the second and third level markets outside? So Pueblo West here in Colorado, right people, Denver group grew like crazy than Colorado Springs, and people just got pushed straight down, I 25, straight down the front range. So for years and years, people didn't really want to go to Pueblo West, lots were trading at five or 10 grand. And now that it's growing people were getting pushed there. I had a friend in Texas asking, Well, where do I go? And I said, Well, Austin and Dallas have blown up. Are there major highways between them with some towns along those that might be growing rapidly? Maybe look, they're in Florida, same sort of thing. So looking at those second and third level markets outside of the growth where people are getting pushed, helps as well, because a lot of time your competition is slightly behind in that area that everyone is already in. Right. So if you're just outside of that, that's worked really well for me. You know, in the West last year, I was getting deals at 3040 cents on the dollars every 100 mailers Oh, yeah, I wish I could still do that. I can't anymore. Yeah.
Casey Brown 28:22
Yeah, that's, that's Yeah. And that's, again, the difficult part I think we all run into is, and I think everybody looks at Instagram and looks at Twitter and looks at all this other stuff. And all they hear from all these people all the way around is scale scale. Let's build on scale, let's build on scale at scale up and, and the problem with scaling up is, is it it's not that we don't want to do it, we all obviously want to do it but it's like you just said now you have to shift a little bit you might not have as many lots in this one spot that you're getting, you have to shift you have to start looking elsewhere. And so why it's tough to go up and then go out all at the same time while keeping the same business model. So yeah, well listen, man, we're running up on our time here but we've got a couple of questions that I ask every guest that comes on the show there's no right or wrong answer it's just and I want to first of all I want to thank you for such an interesting discussion. I know I talked probably as much as you but I feel like we we got a lot done we accomplished a lot and hopefully the listeners can learn something from whatever it is we've we've gone back and forth about but the first question is what is the best book that you have ever read or currently reading
Unknown Speaker 29:44
Rich Dad Poor Dad aside I Sapiens I love the book sapiens. I've read that three times three years in a row. I think it's really insightful into just people human nature. So Sapiens
Casey Brown 29:55
sure awesome man. I haven't read that but but definitely needs to go on our list of friends. commendations for our listeners. All right, what is a dream vacation that you have either taken or hope to take? Oh,
Unknown Speaker 30:09
yeah, I want to go. heli skiing in Aspen or
Casey Brown 30:14
Crested Butte. Oh, well, that's not far from where you're at, man.
Unknown Speaker 30:18
Yeah, I love snowboarding. Right? So snowboarding not skiing, but I've never gone up in the helicopter to the back country that way. So that's, that's on the list.
Casey Brown 30:25
Yeah, man, that's awesome. I never did either. When I was when I lived out there. They always talked about it. And of course, cross country skiing lost my interest very, very fast. Matter of fact, and every went all I had to do was watch a video of it one time, and I was like, yep, that's enough for me. Yeah. That back country stuff is fine. If as long as you're going downhill as far as I'm concerned, so yeah. But well, listen, man. Yeah. So Dan, how can listeners if they've heard something that's resonated with them or want to learn more about what you do? Or how you do it? Or maybe even have a question about maybe they want to sell their lot? Maybe someone Pueblo West is listening and they want to sell their lot to you? How can they reach out and get a
Unknown Speaker 31:06
hold of Dan hammer cost.com or Dan have a cross on Facebook or Instagram?
Casey Brown 31:11
Okay, awesome. Now for the listeners as they're well aware, I am not kind of ready to make sure everybody knows how to spell that. And that is h a v e r, k o s t in case you're driving. You can check it out in the show notes. So, listeners, I want to thank everybody for joining us today. If you don't mind to go and leave us a five star review. We would much much appreciate it and it would help us reach more folks out there that want to learn about how to become a cashflow Pro. And Dan, again, I can't thank you enough for taking time out of your day to be with us. So thank you, everybody. Thanks for having me, Casey. Absolutely. Thank you, Dan.
Transcribed by https://otter.ai