June 24, 2022

Gender Equality with Catherine Gray

In this episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk about gender equality professionally and in our everyday lives with Catherine Gray from She Angel Investors and host of the Invest In Her podcast. Catherine's mission is to ensure women are offered the same...

In this episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk about gender equality professionally and in our everyday lives with Catherine Gray from She Angel Investors and host of the Invest In Her podcast. Catherine's mission is to ensure women are offered the same opportunities as their male counterparts – in a professional setting. This means funding and promotions. In the real world, women get only 2% of capital funding. The rest, 98%, goes to male candidates. This means a lot of brain power and innovations on the sidelines that aren't getting investment.


She Angel Investors connects women founders to funding. Their focus is on empowering female entrepreneurs. She Angels has hosted game-changing events to empower women, such as the Live Love Thrive Conferences, She Angels Pitchfest, and the She Angels Web series.


In this episode, we discuss:

  • Gender Inequality in all professional arenas
  • How to create awareness of gender discrepancies
  • The need for a balance in management positions
  • The data behind gender inequality



Tune in to find out more!


Find your flow,

Casey Brown


Resources mentioned in this podcast:


Casey Brown  0:06  
Hey there, and welcome to today's episode of cash flow Pro, your daily real estate investing podcast and YouTube channel. I'm here today with Katherine Gray, the host of the invest in her podcast. And also I think its owner of she angel investors. Is that correct? Awesome, awesome. Well, Katherine, we're so glad you're here. Just a little precursor. If you're a listener out there, and you you're not aware of my stance on women in business, I just got done discussing this with Katherine prior to the show. I am a huge proponent, as the father of two daughters, to basically never ever, ever, ever, ever hear them say, I can't do that. That is something boys can do. Or, or I can't do that, because I'm a girl. I'm a huge proponent of them being conditioned. And then to have an understanding that whatever boys can do, as the old saying goes, girls can do I add an equally or better to that saying, and that's just kind of my stance on it. I know as your average white male with blue eyes, and no hair used to be blonde hair, no hair. That is a weird stance for some folks. But that is my stance, and I stand by it. And I will always stand by it. Girls can do things anything boys can do. And so Katherine, I'd like to welcome you to the show. And I'd like for you to kind of kick us off with a little bit about yourself, where you come from, and then, of course, getting into how you how you all specialize in connecting, specifically, I think females in the business world in general, and maybe the financial world as well.

Unknown Speaker  2:02  
Sure. Well, thank you so much for the introduction, Casey, we need more dads like you. So that let's start with that. That's how we need to raise young men today that women and men are equal. And that means and this is my daily mission is that we are equally funded. And as your listeners may or may not know, women get less than 2% of venture capital funding, that means 98% Go to men talk about an imbalance. And so everywhere I get a chance to have a platform like yours today, and thank you for that. I like to bring awareness to that fact. Because it's it's unfair, it's unequal. And it leaves a lot of brain power and innovations on the sidelines that aren't getting investment. So every day she angel investors is about how do we connect women founders to funding?

Casey Brown  3:00  
Sure, that's great. And you know, and of course, we're all we're all aware of, you know, I'll be honest, I think in the last, just call it 365 days, in general, especially in the sports arena, I know, there's probably been more change in, in equalizing a lot of things, especially things that have government funding, and so on. I think there's been probably more change and equalizing a lot of sports opportunities as far as the NCAA. And as far as like, you know, the soccer, the soccer just here just just just recently said, they're going to pay the women the same as they do the men. Now, of course, we all know that, that some of the nuances of government funding kinds of things can, you know, we all know that that's something that may or may not get completely done, or whatever the case is. But I think there's been at least some strides in those arenas. And it's a shame that it's, it's taken a social media platform in general to get some stuff done. I think I think the biggest thing that rings out to me and as a father of daughters was was just ripe for the picking of everybody. Hey, man, get this right was the NCAA, women's basketball, weight room, the weight room, the weight room differences, when they were in the bubbles and whatnot. And so, I think that was probably one of the very first things that really opened my eyes because to be quite truthful, it's not something that that as again, your average white, six foot tall male that we really ever stop and think, man, that's really not balanced. And it's it's like I said, it's taken social media channels to get some of that stuff done.

Unknown Speaker  4:59  
Yeah, You know, we certainly are trying to get awareness. I'm actually working on a film about this to raise awareness and educate people about how underfunded women are. And people say, Well, why is that and what it is? Casey is one of the biggest things is that it's mostly white men that have the, in the decision making power in the investment world. And so people tend to invest in people they identify with, I did a TED talk about this called fund women save the world. And so, like you said, intentionally or not intentionally, it's just people tend to invest in people that identify what they identify with their products, their thinking. And so we do need more women, angel investors, and we need more women in the investment world making decisions, that perhaps they would choose something different to invest in than a man would nothing wrong with that it's, you know, this is what makes the world go round. People have different ideologies, they're attracted to different things because of who they are. But the bottom line is, is if we're going to equal the playing field, then the decision making and the funding needs to come from a diverse group of people. And so that's really what's going to change it. And so, but like you said, Yes, progress in the sports world with now the soccer women being paid the same as the men certainly is some progress, but we have at 2% of venture capital funding, we have a long way to go.

Casey Brown  6:39  
Yeah, yeah. Now when? How old? Is that stat? I mean, is there any, has there been any delta in that, like any change, like,

Unknown Speaker  6:47  
you know, they're starting to be changed right around the time of the pandemic, and that started to be more and then after that, with the economy, or whatever, there's been a pullback in people investing. And so of course, that relates to a pullback in the funding for women again, so no, we really haven't moved that needle. It's why I'm making a movie about it. It's about how do we move that needle. And so one of the things is that more women are starting their own funds. Because if they are

Casey Brown  7:20  
interviewed ever along this show, I matter of fact, I bet I've interviewed I've interviewed several women who are not only into the syndication world, of finding properties, raising money for deals and, and I gotta say, it brings a whole new dynamic to it, because for one, they're far better to look at than I am. And, and, but it brings a whole different dynamic to it, simply because some of the some of the creative talk changes, some of the some of the, it's not so much a black and white numbers, you know, some of the, again, it brings, it almost brings a whole new, like a whole new section of I just I just talked to a lady the other day, who was doing who's in the hotel conversions, and I thought, Man that is prom, like, like that, that's just something I envisioned my daughter's looking not that I'm trying to place them or tell them what to do, or because I beg to wherever they want to do. But I'm just saying that like, it just seems to me like something like that. Is is really like prime for for because I don't know, it just seems like my daughters are so like, they're way better decorating and seeing and doing things like that than I ever could possibly be. And I love that dynamic that it brings to it.

Unknown Speaker  8:37  
Well, you know what, like I said, I really appreciate that you're championing women, we need more men like yourself to do that. And what that looks like is, besides telling your daughters, they can do anything, we need more funding to fund all the innovations. And so we do need men to get behind us in the funding arena. And if they don't, they're actually missing out on really great opportunities to invest in some really smart women with some innovations, and more and more women as they're getting funding or becoming unicorns. And so, you know, men are starting to realize, oh, well, if I don't invest in these women, I'm gonna miss out on a great investment. And so we're trying to raise awareness of that.

Casey Brown  9:24  
Yeah, that's, that's wonderful. And then and you know, and I guess when I start to kind of niche down and and think about different ideas, that's when I get I get in the weeds too far with what what I hope happens but but so with that being said, there's always been the in the world of men in business. You're generally one of I think, let me ask you about this hurdle, I guess is where I'm gonna go with this. The hurdle of men in business are generally conservative. You know, we, not myself wear ties and everything is straightforward. And it seems like when you start looking at the political side of this, like, automatically a man who jumps in and says, Hey, women can do this women can do this, you get labeled as like, Hey, I'm a, I'm a liberal weirdo who wants who wants this, that or the other. And so I feel like there's somewhat of a fence there, where the men don't want to be perceived by the other men as this outlier on political belief or something like that. And I know that maybe that's complicated. But to me, that seems like the biggest wall almost to

Unknown Speaker  10:39  
no one, I think the more out and I think the more men like yourself, are speaking up saying, hey, I want equality for my daughters. They're just as smart and capable, as my sons. More people will respect that and say, You know what, I was really feeling that way too. unclad. Casey said that, so that it gives me the ability to also voice that I feel that way. And so the more men that really speak up, like you're doing today, really breaks down those walls and those barriers and those stereotypes. So I really applaud you for talking about this on your show today.

Casey Brown  11:17  
Well, and it's, it's general, it almost brings to the to the, you know, for for many, many, many, many, many years, mental health was has been like a taboo or something that everybody was like, Well, everyone talk to that weirdo, he takes medicine. And it's like, you know, and once those barriers towards that started kind of being broken down into Hey, man, this mental health stuffs a is a is a real thing, like bipolar disorder is a real thing. It's not something that somebody chose, it's just as serious as diabetes is just as serious as anything. But it's the same type of barriers where people are like, you know, I'm like, it's almost like, now all of a sudden, the water gets gets gets leveled, because now everybody's like, Oh, hey, yeah, you know, these people that we're living under these rocks, and nobody really wants to step out and say, Hey, that's not right. That's not right. I don't care what political party you're associated with. I don't care what part of whatever gun drama you're on the side of, that's not right. My daughters should have equal opportunity, just like my sons, period, end of story.

Unknown Speaker  12:31  
Yeah, you know, your daughters may be the one that, you know, has an innovation that really helps impact the planet in a major way. You know, it was, you know, women that created X rays, computer programming, refrigerators, air conditioning, central air, you know, fire escapes, you know, it's, it's amazing how little we know about all the innovations of women, and I just wrote an article on that, because I think the more we understand all the amazing innovations and inventions that women created that have impact your life on a daily basis, the more we understand how we need to fund this generation of women who also have amazing ideas and innovations that will impact your life and the life of generations to come. So let's get behind these women and listen to what they have to say and invest in them. That's, that's important. And it's important also, that we rate, alleviate the barrier of women investing in this venture capital world, we need more women investors, so if there's people in your circle that you know, you're someone's wife, or daughter, or whatever you're successful, you should also look at, hey, I should become an angel investor, this is a viable way to invest your money. And it can be very lucrative, as well as, you know, making an impact with your life. You know, whatever your purpose is here. You know, maybe you don't have that great invention, but you know, another woman that does, and you can invest in her

Casey Brown  14:15  
work and do the same things. I mean, just just and and I think I want to go back a little bit to the political barriers that I was discussing there a minute ago. And I think that a lot of times it's misperceived as two people go interview for a job, one female one, my daughter, or one male one, my daughter, and they, the, the employer has to give preference to my daughter simply because like, like she automatically has 60% male has 40% Simply because she's a woman. And I think that's where some of that stuff gets. That's where some of that stuff is justified. I think that's built into a justification for not hiring. The female is big because supposedly they're supposed to have preferential treatment, I want my daughter to get the job because she walked in there. And she ended up with 60% of it when she started at 5050. That's what I want. I don't want my daughter. Yes, and automatically have preferential treatment, I guess, is what I'm getting at. That's the political divide. Whereas say, Hey, do away with that stuff, just hey, if the male is better, the male is better if the female is better, the female is better hire who is more, who is the same qualifications?

Unknown Speaker  15:29  
Yeah, you know, in Casey, in the perfect world, I understand what you're saying. But if that system had been working, more women would be higher up in companies as CEOs and decision makers, if you just said, the best person for the job should be put in those positions. The reason that they put those type of qualifications in place where they say, you know, you have to hire a certain amount of women is, or people of color, or whatever it is, is because it has historically been that the woman who's doing an exceptional job gets does not get picked over the man just because he's a man, even though he's not as good at the job as she is. That's why they put things in place like that. And maybe there's no perfect solution. But that is

Casey Brown  16:23  
basically you're saying they started 6040. And then they have to, they create more detriment. I mean, I see what you're saying. So so so they're getting a little preferential treatment to begin with to make up for what they're not getting? At? I guess I see exactly what you're saying. Yeah, that makes

Unknown Speaker  16:44  
sense. Somewhere. If there's no checks and balances in place, the woman just never gets promoted. I just talked to a woman the other day, she was like, top of her law firm, kicking butt should have been a partner and had to walk away. Because no matter what, the partners who had less experience less success, were elevated just because they're men. So in that case, it's the flip side of what you're saying. It's, you know, giving preference to men, even though there's not a law in place that says you have to hire a certain amount of men. But the reason that they put those checks and balances in is to give a fair shot to women who normally get passed over no matter how great a job they're doing. And so yeah, there's no perfect scenario. But that's the reason for that.

Casey Brown  17:35  
Yeah. Yeah. And that's, and then that's it, that makes sense. And then the thing is, is that a lot of people, the disconnect would definitely come in the fact that somebody actually has to stop and listen and acknowledge that, hey, maybe that's right, because people have a hard time acknowledging that, whoa, maybe my way of thinking was wrong. Or maybe my way of thinking wasn't exactly the way I thought it should, you know, I wasn't exactly as right as I thought I was. And so it makes perfect sense when you explain it like that. And I think there's, there's definitely a disconnect, and people actually stopping and putting, applying logic to say, hey, you know, and as we're well aware, you know, several years ago, baseball, jumped into the analytics game, like, like, they were one of the very first sports worlds to jump into, hey, these analytics basically mean things like if there's so much so many home runs a year, there's gonna be give or take that many home runs over the next 100 years. So what are we going to do to change whatever, and it's the same thing when you start looking at the stats, and the statistics don't lie. And when you start looking at that, and again, I'm not saying that, that, that everybody goes out, now you all of a sudden have to hire two, everybody is required to have two women, for me to do business with or whatever, I'm just simply saying, like, hey, you know, some of these creative minds are in the heads of little girls right now. And, and that's, that's what is so that that's, that's my thoughts, anyway, is just

Unknown Speaker  19:15  
talk about analytics. I mean, the research shows that companies that have both men and women in their top management positions tend to be more profitable and more successful, because each of the entities brings a different, you know, aspect to the table. And companies need both perspectives. Like you said, you know, men and women think differently, but they each bring something different to the table that make it great, just like in a family, you know. And so it's, it's important to have both perspectives at the table, and that's really what those laws are saying is, hey, 50% of the people are men. 50% are women. The brain power is in both camps. Let's have both in decision making arenas in these companies. Same thing on the venture capital world, you can't tell me that only 2% of women have great ideas and innovations and 98% come from men. Boy, it's so lopsided that we are missing out on so many creations and innovations that women could be bringing to the table, that all we're saying in this conversation is, men, if you invest in the venture capital world, if you're a limited partner, or you're an angel investor, consider investing in women's innovations, whether you understand them or not, just you know, Canvas, your daughter's canvas, your sisters, your friends, and see if that product makes sense to them, even if it doesn't make sense to you. And then you could invest in them. Because just because we need to turn the tide. And everyone wants to be on the side of making things right and making things better, no matter which your political views. You're right. And that's nothing to do with politics, it has to do with just having equal footing for your daughters, sisters, wives and friends.

Casey Brown  21:12  
Yep, that's exactly right. And, and, you know, another part of this, I feel like, and maybe this is, and I don't know the stats on this, so I'm maybe speaking completely out of left field here. But it seems to me that my generation, which I'm 40 years old, at this point, it seems to me like this generation that I'm part of, is spinning, you know that when Kobe Bryant was killed, there was the hashtag girl dad. And I think that I think it's, I think that particularly spoke to a lot of us, that are involved in our daughter's lives, that are involved in volleyball, that are involved in my daughter playing soccer, that are involved in a lot of these things. And I feel like my generation may be a little more connected to our eight to 15 year old daughter's right now. Like, I know, I'm more connected with my eight to 15 year old daughters right now than my father ever was to me. And we were both male. And so as I see that, and I, and I see that they have potential, I'm wondering what kind of change that's going to bring as these girls that are eight to 15 right now, and 2022, you know, in 20, just say, 2035 2035, when, when my youngest daughter is 21. What kind of changes is that going to lead towards, in everything, everything, just a father involvement. I mean, it's the I know, the stats are there for for preteen print or for teen pregnancy versus father involvement. And so I just I'm hoping that some of this is going to push forward with just and I see that with all of the other dads that are standing on the sideline with me. Okay. hollered at my daughter to say I'm hollering my daughter playing soccer to hustle up, get going, make things happen just as much as I am my son when he's swinging the damn bat. We're, it's it's and again, I'm standing on that sideline with 15 other dads that are doing the same thing. And I just don't remember seeing that. When I was young. Now, I wouldn't have been looking either. But the father is completely different. It's completely different in this age,

Unknown Speaker  23:32  
I agree with you, you know, I agree with our year, our parents generation, they really didn't participate or come cheer us on as girls or boys. But you're right, this generation is more interacting with both their daughters and sons, in sports, and so forth. I see it with my sister's family and so forth. And you're right, that does make a difference. And yeah, hopefully changes coming. It's slow. But, you know, one of the things is shows like this, and the movie I'm making and the, you know, the podcast conversations, you know, that we're having to it's not

Casey Brown  24:10  
taboo, it's not taboo to cheer on the women, it's nine, you know, I have an ex wife, and the easiest thing in this entire world would have been to completely condemn all women, based on whatever my experiences were, when in fact, just just, just be nice, just be friendly. And you know, what, and we're all we all get along. Everything's, you know, it's just, it just doesn't have to be like that. And I think a lot of times that happens, and people just get they feel that burn and they just, it's like they're ruined forever. As far as Yeah, support.

Unknown Speaker  24:50  
You know, and I don't understand. Like you said, if a male was watching this and would you know not be supportive of us supporting your daughters It doesn't make sense to me their mother brought them into the world. I'm sure they have sisters, daughters friends, why wouldn't they want to champion champion those women? It doesn't, it doesn't take away from men to champion the women, it just makes it better for everyone to have an equal opportunity and to cheer each other on. And like you said, you know, as in politics, we need to just listen to each other, see where each other's coming from. But hopefully, this is one thing that we can all come together on. And that is, why not have equal equality for women equal pay equal opportunity.

Casey Brown  25:43  
Yeah, and give and give, give their political beliefs the same weight that you give a male's. I mean, don't don't just automatically consider somebody a liberal, wacko or conservative moron or whatever you want to call, just because they support one issue or another on both sides. It's not, it's far too divisive of a world to then be divided, you're you're you're actually dividing it into two additional spots there. And so anyway, I you could talk about it all day long. And I could do I know, it's, it's just something that I'm really after is my daughter's, again, earning the quality to say, or earning their position the same as they do, but being given the same treatment as anybody else. And that's that, that's just that's that, I want to see them be successful, whether it be in business, or whether it be in, in working a cash register, I don't care what they do, I want them to do what they do to the very best of their abilities, and be the top of whatever it is they're working on. And that and either way, I guess we'll see how that plays out. So

Unknown Speaker  26:57  
and to be able to do whatever it is that their heart makes their heart sing, like, you know, if they want to be an airplane pilot, or they want to be a scientist, this is not exclusive to men, this is something that any woman has that capability of doing and should know that you know, that we're all put on this planet to live our purpose, figure out what makes your heart sing and know that that is available to you as a woman as well. So I appreciate the conversation and so happy that you're championing your daughters.

Casey Brown  27:34  
Yeah. And then that's again, yeah, and anybody that follows, I guess, at least from this point forward, I'm not sure I have a lot of time to talk about my kids on the show. But but most certainly, I, I wish everybody and especially fathers out there to to really push your daughters to, to, again, not not go in and deserve something purely because of their sex, but to go in and earn it the same as the rest of us. But from the people looking back down to say, Hey, listen, you know, we're going to this is going to be fair, you know, you're better at sales. And you know, and that's, that's the other thing a lot of women are, like, like, as far as sales goes, I feel like if women were given a greater opportunity in sales jobs alone, I mean, my gosh, I just I've seen so many female salesmen, that I'm just like, wow, we're you know, do you want a job? You know, do you are you ready to come work here? Because, because that's what we that's just what the world needs. But anyhow, so again, we could talk about it all day long. But as we're running out of time, I have a few different questions. I know we didn't get to a lot of capital raising, we didn't get a lot to two investments and stuff like that, which I guess typically, sometimes we stir around in this in this show, but I feel like we tackled a much more important topic that maybe at some point we can, we can dive deeper into or whatever the case is, as far as you and I are concerned. But a few questions that we ask every guest that comes on the show. It doesn't have to relate to this topic. It doesn't have to relate to business. But what is the best book that you have recently read or currently reading?

Unknown Speaker  29:14  
I would say but when I'm just reading Melinda Gates book, Oh, wow. Okay. Yeah. So that's the one I'm currently in the middle of it sitting over here on my desk. And, you know, I'm a big follower of Brene Brown, Brendon Bouchard. I really like to read books, about different thought leaders that helped me think differently.

Casey Brown  29:44  
Yeah, different angles, different angles is brilliant. Yeah, I mean, just just Yeah. Anything that can that we were just talking I was just talking with the lady on the show the other day about getting out of your comfort zone. You know, out of your comfort zone is where things has happened and makes you think differently. And it exercises your mind. So what is a your dream vacation that you have either taken or hoped to take?

Unknown Speaker  30:11  
Oh, wow, I was just talking to someone about that today. I think one of my favorite vacations was Alaska. You know, so happy to get to see that while it's still there, and it was just breathtaking taking a helicopter over the ice caps landing on it going dog sledding, it was absolutely magical to this day, I will never forget it even though it was a decade ago.

Casey Brown  30:37  
Awesome, man. That's great. And I'm always you know, a lot of people don't realize what the gym that we have up there is. Seward's Folly is what it was called when it was bought by the United States and they couldn't believe he had done it. And it absolutely turned out it's such a gem. I've never been there. I hope to go someday. But you know, that's, that's great. So, alright,

Unknown Speaker  31:03  
we'll get on your bucket list.

Casey Brown  31:05  
It's it is actually already currently there. I just, I've heard people take Alaskan cruises, and I just, there's not a bone in my body that's ever going to get on another cruise ship as long as I leave. So I'm gonna have to find a different way. But yes, it is definitely there. So well, Katherine, listen, how can so if the listeners heard something that resonated with or if there's maybe some assistance they need to get from you or or would like to reach out to you to get opinions or ideas or thoughts? How can they do that?

Unknown Speaker  31:35  
Sure, they could visit she Angel That's Angel singular, investors plural. And we have a lot of information on there, I have an E course called six ways to fund your business, which is funding made simple for female founders. It can be found on our website, as well as the podcast invest in her. So yeah, we'd love to hear from people and have them sign up for our information that we send out on a monthly basis. And just really appreciate being on your platform today. Casey, you've really approach things in a different way than the typical podcasters that I've been on their shows, and I really appreciate you opening up a dialogue.

Casey Brown  32:18  
We'll certainly certainly we hope to. We hope this is a dialogue that continues and I know, I know that, that my daughters will certainly be grateful for it someday. I hope so. Well, listen. Well. Thanks again. And I hope everybody has a wonderful rest of the day and thank you for being on the show, Katherine.

Unknown Speaker  32:35  
Thank you, Casey. Take care. Bye bye.

Transcribed by

Catherine GrayProfile Photo

Catherine Gray

She Angel Investors