June 2, 2022

Discussing the Short-Term Market with Peter Shull

In this episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk with Peter Schull, the director of business development at Patriot family homes. Peter went from the military into real estate – specifically the short-term rental market. Today, he will share his views on...

In this episode of Cash Flow Pro, we talk with Peter Schull, the director of business development at Patriot family homes. Peter went from the military into real estate – specifically the short-term rental market. Today, he will share his views on the market, its difficulties, and advantages.

Patriot Family Homes was founded in 2018 after the founders realized the gap in the market and the need for homes for traveling families and professionals. The company is veteran-owned and operated. Its focus is on short-term rentals and has successfully grown from a couple of houses to more than 350 in more than 25 markets. They use industry-leading software and management systems to help you maximize your home's value in the short-term rental market.

In this episode, we discuss:
• Single-family and short-term rental apartments
• Scalability within the market and the role of Airbnb
• Dealing with the local government and regulations
• How to start "dipping your toes" in the market

Make sure to tune in on this episode to find out more!

Find your flow,
Casey Brown

Resources mentioned in this podcast:



Casey Brown  0:02  
Do you want to look at?

Unknown Speaker  0:03  
Oh, yeah, maybe I'm moved this over here.

Casey Brown  0:06  
Hey there and welcome to cash flow Pro, your daily real estate investment podcast and YouTube channel. Today I am here with Peter shoal of Patriot family homes. And Peter and I were just talking pre show and we were discussing all of the things that he feels comfortable talking about in real estate syndication was at the very top. So we're gonna get some ideas from him, some strategies from him and how they look at their business and how they look at their investors, and how they make their investors money grow. So, Peter, welcome. How are you today?

Unknown Speaker  0:44  
I'm doing well. Thank you. Thank you so much for having us on the show. Oh, yeah, absolutely.

Casey Brown  0:48  
We're glad to have you here and glad you could take the time to be with us. So tell us a little bit about yourself and Patriot family homes and what all exactly you all have going on?

Unknown Speaker  1:00  
Okay. Well, yeah, that those two stories are intertwined. I actually, oddly enough, 28 year veteran, the CEO that started the company actually used to be a supporter of mine in the military. So twist of fate there. I'm now working for him instead of him more defending me. But I tell you what, he's he's a great American, I'm happy to do so. But he and I actually meant when we were serving together in the 75th Ranger Regiment. And he had told me about this deal. Actually, we were deployed overseas at the time, and he was telling me what he was doing with his his home back in Columbus, Georgia, who was kind of written that out to some military families. And when he got back stateside, he decided that, hey, this is something that he had to capitalize and take advantage of. And he grew it from, you know, 3030 homes in the first year, and then you Oh, wow. Yeah, yeah. So he's real smart on capital structures. So that probably helps, you know, a little bit, how to how to leverage properly. And again, he was doing short term rentals. He had intended to go into long term. But he kind of stumbled into this short term market, because again, he was overseas, you plan on coming back. His wife was working for Mackenzie. So she went back up to DC to kind of stay closer to work and be with family. So they had that home set in there. And they decided to do short term rentals. We planned on coming back and occupying it worked out perfect. But then he saw the tremendous cash flow and thought, hey, there's there's something here so awkward. What Yeah, he partnered with some, some family members, upfront kind of got this thing going, I found a spouse of a another military individual. And she was a veteran as well. She had just gotten out. And she was looking for some work. So they kind of partnered together and grew the company to where we are today where, you know, over 350 doors.

Casey Brown  2:48  
Oh, wow. And how many how many markets? So right

Unknown Speaker  2:53  
now we're in 25. Plus markets, we're still growing. So Joe just came out of the military, just this last year? Awesome. And so we're in 25, that the name of the game right now is growth. So we're trying to grow as quickly as we can across the nation? Sure. 13 different states right now is where we can stake a claim. Okay. And yeah, we try to add more every day.

Casey Brown  3:15  
Now, obviously, I'm coming from single family residential sales, which is my background, I have a general idea of the due diligence and stuff involved in like a consumer purchase of a single family residence. Now, when you're looking at it from now, are all of those doors short term rentals? Yes, they're all. Now, are they specifically situated close to military bases? Or is there a case?

Unknown Speaker  3:48  
Yeah, we started off because that's the market that we knew. But then we've since grown.

Casey Brown  3:53  
Gotcha. Because you knew the clientele and the basic way that families come in to visit and so on, so forth. So yeah, that makes sense. So, so with that, where I was headed with that question was, again, I'm very familiar with the due diligence from a single family. When you do when you're doing due diligence for a short term rental, what is the what is the like, What all do you all look for? Are you into doing repairs? Are you into doing like? Like, what am I like a maintenance? That is? That's that's done before? Something breaks and stuff? I

Unknown Speaker  4:30  
should add? I mean, sure. So you know, what I would say is, there's probably not a whole lot of difference between how you're going to approach and look at the asset and making an evaluation. Because that's the beauty of what we do. We're backstopped by the very liquidity liquid. single family home is the most liquid real estate out there. So there's not a whole lot of difference in that aspect of it where it will get different is when we start looking at you know from a short term rental perspective, what is the demand? So for that, we use different for various tools in the markets where we have some density, we can use our own comps. And then in new markets, we generally rely on both our own marketing research and then analytic tools like air DNA.

Casey Brown  5:15  
Sure. Okay. And and from, do you all incorporate? I'm assuming bank some type of bank financing on. So you see, do you partner investor funds with bank financing on like each deal? Or do you package them up? Or how does that look? Well?

Unknown Speaker  5:33  
Yeah, just to back up a little bit. So when Joe got started in into this, you know, you originally was doing all his own buying and holding and then doing short term rentals, he sounds off a management company from that. And then now he just has what he calls the prop COEs is Holdings Company. Okay, so it is his Holdings Company. Now he's working with other investors. So he helps them essentially set up a portfolio of one they have complete control, but they're really kind of an LP, he'll be the GM. Okay, they activities. So, you know, in his own, you know, to answer your question and his own, he works with various lenders across the United States, you know, he's got some bigger partners that that he's been going to and working with for quite a while, as we continue to move across the state across the country, rather, we're always looking for new partners. Now with those other holdings companies inside of the, you know, the, the the umbrella Holdings Company, those corporate structures, really those investors bring with them. Their own lenders.

Casey Brown  6:32  
Gotcha. Okay. So yeah, so So you're so he's okay, so there's, there's a considerable stack there, I guess, if you will have different or layers of of companies that kind of go together that fit with the investors. Okay. So on the single family? What are single family ownership, short term rentals? What are some of the, I guess, one thing that I think people always look at or think about is, is maintenance on the the I guess what you would call the personal property side of things like, like, obviously, broken plates at our house does don't mean much, because we put them in the trash can, but obviously, so do your do you have like crews that, that go in and take care of this? These little things are? And obviously you said you had a man they do head of management companies? Well, but what does that look like?

Unknown Speaker  7:28  
Yeah, so I'll try to describe, I think, really, what you're trying to talk speak to is, hey, what's the overall op X involved with a short term versus your long term, obviously, it's gonna be much larger, right? You know, you've got a lot more risk in terms of the furnishings that you've got inside of it. It's not just the furniture, like you said, it's all the, you know, the housewares the dishes, the pots, pans, everything, towels, which is also I'll just comment on that real quick. It's kind of the barrier to short term, right, you can look at cost upwards of 15 to $25,000, to plan depending on how big the home is, for furnishings, especially in this inflationary environment. But, you know, I would just probably, you know, cut to the chase and say that the cash flows are such that, that is, you know, that is put into the equation. So we have, you know, one line that we do in our underwriting that has to do with the maintenance costs associated by month. Okay. And, you know, so as we're looking at it during our due diligence period, we're taking all of the those obvious lessons learned that we've had over all of the trials and tribulations, you can kind of factor that in is part of the equation to determine whether or not the cash flow is good enough.

Casey Brown  8:43  
Now, one part of the short term rental stuff that has, I don't want to say held up held held, I don't know if it's held a majority of people back or not, but it's one thing that I actually heard brought up on a on a podcast or show I was watching a couple of weeks ago, and and there's some concern over scalability of it to the degree that some of these HOAs and some of these, I don't even want to go as far as saying like City Council's are going to start putting some some pretty squash regulations on this stuff. And again, in the short term, I don't think that that's a massive factor that needs to play in, but when you're purchasing an asset, and that's your main, and you're purchasing it and underwriting it based on one's incomes, right, what, what, what how does that play into your overall plan?

Unknown Speaker  9:46  
Yeah, so absolutely, that as a risk. And we've we've had to face that in some of the markets the way that we have approached the problem again, you said scalability, and I think when people think about that there usually thinking about the market that they're in, you know, whether you're let's say Memphis, Memphis mind market? Well, we're thinking about it. The way that we see risk is we're thinking about how many we put in Memphis, how many we put in? Since? Okay, so we de risk by geographies right there.

Casey Brown  10:17  
It's about saying that they're not all if they're all going to do it, they're likely not all going to do it at the same time. And we would have time to, yep, to move the cards around and make it

Unknown Speaker  10:26  
absolutely. And that is one of the great things about government is they tend not to move very fast, and they're very deliberate. So there will be a lot of messaging. And there's an opportunity to, you know, speak out or potentially work with local governments Trudeau to say, hey, look, this is how we approach this so that there's a win win. You know, we're a responsible property owner. We know, we don't condone all of the bad parts of the narrative. Obviously, we don't want parties and craziness going on inside of our, our assets. Because, you know, obviously, that is not in our interest. So sure. But anyway, yeah, to answer your question, that is absolutely something that we take into consideration, you know, it's probably something I should have mentioned, when we're doing our due diligence, is to look at the local regulations, and to see where that's trending. And then also to, you know, in terms of where you're going to buy in, you know, very densely urban area, obviously, there's probably going to be more risk associated with going in there by seeing, you know, out on the edge of town or more in the country, which, you know, which actually, you know, a lot of people now, I think everybody saw the latest Airbnb earnings release. Yeah, they crushed a trend is a lot of people are out there looking at work experiences, and a lot of those experiences can be associated with the Rural in country areas as well. So

Casey Brown  11:56  
yeah, and I'll tell you my experience, so when we were, my wife, and I went to Southern France back in October, and we had, like, the most stellar apartment that you could even imagine on, it had to be the most stellar apartment on the planet, as far as I'm concerned, beautiful view of the Mediterranean, in us in the small, small little suburb of Monaco, or whatever. And so, and it was like, and I'm, I'm not kidding, when I say it was like, $48 a night. I mean, it was literally, it was it was almost like it might as well have been nothing. Yeah. And we went back so it was so cheap that we went back to and decided to say, hey, we're gonna go a little north. So we went into Italy about just within six months, and got over there. And I bet the price of a comparable Airbnb, of course, it wasn't sa comparable based on amenities and stuff. And where it was in Florence was about three times that. And so when they said it was up, like what 77%

Unknown Speaker  13:03  
is, yeah, just absolutely amazing. So

Casey Brown  13:07  
and I think that, you know, and just, for example, I tend to think of things when, when I'm looking for something, or my wife says, Hey, I wish this had that. I tend to say, Okay, well, hey, if one of us is saying something about a common hourly commonality, ality like that, that generally means that there's probably other people that are thinking that as well. And this was her response when I said, Hey, why don't we just get a hotel in some place we traveled to in the meantime or whatever. And she said, I would much rather get an Airbnb because then we can use the kitchen and we can actually have like, a place to stay instead of

Unknown Speaker  13:43  
an injury, you can do your washing and stuff. Correct. And

Casey Brown  13:47  
that was and so I tended, that's when I started, like, looking into it saying, okay, hey, if that's her response, and that's what she's thinking, there's a probably a pretty good chance, because we're pretty common people. And there's probably a pretty good chance that there's a vein, that's probably more than more than the outskirts that want these same types of things.

Unknown Speaker  14:09  
So absolutely, you know, you're hitting on something to it, I think is worth kind of expanding on for your viewers, when you're talking about real estate, one of the beauties of that investment is that you've got control, right? This isn't something like you're investing in an ETF or a bond or you know, some other corporate structures, really calling the shots when you are investing in your own real estate. You have the ability to pull carpet, put new carpet in and put new appliances in and then you can charge more, right? Yeah, I mean, take that times 10 with short term rentals, right? Because you can control all of those amenities that will be available. You know, things that you would not even think about, like in the home that people are looking for, and like you said, is 1000s and millions of people are combing through these listings and looking for if you're able to offer those amenities that are too And then you're going to get, you know, higher premium for that. So even more so in the short term, it'll, you know, the the the ability to react to inflationary pressure is a lot better than it would be with your long term. So that's why we really, really like the short term market. We have more influence over the ADRs.

Casey Brown  15:18  
Yeah, and, and especially, I want to go back and of course, as my, my listeners are very well aware, I'm pretty close to Fort Campbell military base here in Kentucky. And the Airbnb thing really, you know, Mark Twain always said, Well, I say always said Mark Twain, his famous comment about Kentucky was when I die, I want to die in Kentucky because everything happens 20 years later. And so with that being said, it took Airbnb, it took the Airbnb model, a long time to come to our area. And I And since it's since I ever since I heard about it years ago, I was always thinking, you know, it's perfect for a military family that wants to like, like, if somebody's son is in the military, and they want to come stay and see the grandkids, they don't necessarily want to stay with the grandkids, but they want to stay close. They can they get a man, I got an amen on that. And, and they can, you know, they can have their own place. And they can again, it's their own space Romaine for a while, you know, and they can even, and they said, and on the Airbnb report I heard yesterday, by the time the show airs, it's gonna, of course, be history. But on the Airbnb report I heard yesterday, they said that they're that Airbnb is most used, the length of stay is 28 days. And I was, I was a bit taken aback by that. And I thought, you know, because everywhere we've ever gone, we've gone for like a week or

Unknown Speaker  16:52  
Yeah, I think that is the trend. I think that I think that what he was saying is that, that is the the largest growth area is 28 days or more. Which, which says a lot. You know, to your point, I mean, most people think of it as you know, a couple of days, maybe a week, and that is, you know, our experience right now as we look at it with our averages are it is generally somewhere around there. But we are seeing more and more inquiries for people who want to stay two or three months, you think about all of the reasons and you talked about military families PCs, going from one place to the we're actually working with a company that focuses on that niche market and trying to help PCs. It's called PCs, eds. And so we're working with them to offer up our homes to those military families. Because obviously, being a veteran owned and operated company, it's near and dear to our heart, and we're sure you have a lot of our homes are near military market. So there's a you know, I agree, I think that that trend is going to continue to grow and grow over time.

Casey Brown  17:55  
The length of stay your toddler Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  17:58  
I think so. The whole work from home the pandemic is accelerating. Oh,

Casey Brown  18:02  
yeah. Well, and I'll, I'll throw a term out there. I wasn't, I wasn't going to really reveal this. And we've got a guest coming in a few days, but I'm gonna go ahead and speak on it. And this term, I know you've heard it digital nomad. And so I've got a digital nomad that's actually a friend of mine that I met a few months ago, and he's gonna be on the show in a couple of days. And, and their their whole model for life is based on basically Airbnb and, and one of the things that so So I guess what I'm looking at is, is property owner is massively benefitting by a 30 day stay. renter is massively benefiting from a 30 day stay, because they can use the furniture and live and actually live in so everything about the whole model is really I think, in my opinion, only beginning. Absolutely. And, and I know that that when it first started, and of course, the old adage of staying with a stranger was people were taken definitely taken aback by Well, I'm not staying at somebody's house. What do you mean, I want my, someone else's bed. And the more the more that the more that I became myself again, my Mollica my wife and I as the average so we're, you know, the more that I became acclimated with the idea of staying in somebody else's house because I was like, you know, somebody has stayed in that hotel room before what did it matter in her anyway? Right. Somebody else used that for that restaurant before what did it matter, mother thing? And so when I started thinking on Okay, there was a movie called European vacation several years ago. And you know, he knocks on obviously with some there was some or It was the wrong persons door, whatever. And they didn't speak the language went in and enjoyed the family, the culture, the whole thing, and then left the next day. And they were like, Who the heck are these people? You know. And so what I'm getting at is, is that's the kind of stuff that I think people are going to law people are longing for, is a connection of cultures. And again, I know this is getting deep into what, what you have to offer in an air from an Airbnb standpoint, but you have to think about it like that. And think about it. Like, you know, that's, that's why my wife and I traveled to Europe is for culture. I mean, we go to just to just experience what everyday life is like in different places. And it's the same scenario with Airbnb. And I think that Airbnb offers that. And I don't want to necessarily regale this just to Airbnb, because there's there's other platforms also that I've heard folks use. Do you all use any other platform? Yeah,

Unknown Speaker  20:55  
we list across all of those partners with all VRBO HomeAway. You know, obviously, the big one is Airbnb. So

Casey Brown  21:05  
now if somebody books on one of the sites, does it,

Unknown Speaker  21:09  
yeah, there's through our through our we use guests, the booking platform, and through that system, it will go in there and then it will block so that we can get double bookings Did you call

Casey Brown  21:18  
it what platform

Unknown Speaker  21:19  
was that? Guest the guest booking platform,

Casey Brown  21:24  
just in case the listeners out there, you can use Airbnb business or get into the short term rental business. But but the thing you know, and I'll tell you back to just a little bit back to the regulations. You know, Nashville is only an hour away from us as well. And as we talked about, so regular. And I remember at one point, several years ago, I say seven years has probably been four or five years ago now. They said something like 90% of the of the they call them sky cranes that were east of the Mississippi were in the city of Nashville, they were downtown Nashville is like 28, or 30, of Mercer Island. And it was some unbelievable figure. And they were building these buildings. And one of the things that I think, I don't know how it got overlooked, or what, what led to this, but eventually it led to not even just like city, I don't know if it was city council, or if it was the county or what it was, but they were like, hey, these buildings are being built. And they were specifically built for people to come in and invest in buy for five $600,000 unit. And for sure, short term rental, and then all of a sudden the city came in there and they were like, boom, no shot, and they were like, This is not this is not going down. And and I can only imagine what obviously the fallout wasn't that great because they're still building. But that's the kind of stuff that man if like it just that's what that's what I think holds a lot of people back and saying, Hey, this is a massively scalable. Let's, let's go into this and do it.

Unknown Speaker  22:56  
But there's obvious benefits to the local government to work with people who want to do this, right. Yeah, there's danger, we get it. You know, obviously those things get hyper, you know, hits the headlines of the news and people are it's sensationalized, right, yep. hypersensitive.

Casey Brown  23:17  
So something works for one person, you get it, then you get 1000 10,000 100,000 people that say, Well, if it worked for them, it's gonna work for me. And then all of a sudden, it's duplicating on a scale. But but you exactly what you to your point right there. And I want to add to that, that I feel like it's all about the taxes. I feel like the city specifically was like, Hey, we're missing out on these transient room taxes. And we're missing out on whatever. Exactly,

Unknown Speaker  23:46  
exactly. So you know, the government is is smart. And I will tell you that in Nashville, they have since reversed that, because we actually are active in Nashville, and also we do some management for for clients in Nashville. But you know, you could actually use this and you know, if councils were smart, they would zone it into areas where they want to see more revitalization. Because if you think about it, the taxes would go into that particular neighborhood to help with, you know, the tax, the, you know, the streets, the you know, the amenities that are offered to neighborhoods. And again, you know, developers are more than willing to come in, take advantage of a great buy on a piece of property, put some money into it and then cashflow it through short term rentals. So to ensure a great proposition, we serve it numerous times.

Casey Brown  24:33  
You know, I had a cause I had I have a cousin that lives in Washington State and Washington State for those that haven't been there's absolutely beautiful. And she actually for their 10th anniversary her husband's 10th anniversary not long ago, they called me up and said hey, we're coming to Nashville and celebrate our anniversary. And I was like, and you know, and used to it was like what you thinking but it really is a hotbed of a lot of things right now. And so yeah, that's, that's wonderful to hear that you all are active in that market because it's it. So when, at this point in the business, I want to talk a little more about the business yours, you all specific Patriot family homes. So at this point in the business are we are you looking at? Obviously it's not going to be profitable for you to step into a new market for one property I can't imagine or we're not going to be massively profitable unless So, so what degree of of geographical research is going on in order to go in and say, Hey, we can buy an affordable amount of homes? Or is there a break even number of homes that that you look for?

Unknown Speaker  25:52  
Yeah, so great question. And what we've settled on is, you know, a minimum number is four to 545. And again, depending on what, you know, we should have church flow on that particular home with you. So, but four is where we'll start. And we'll have a certain level of, you know, infrastructure we put in at that point. And then generally, when we get to the 10 to 15, we start to put in more infrastructure. So, for example, market managers and these sorts of things, right. And then, as we get to a higher level, we just continue to add now, yeah, way that we like to go into a market. Again, we work with investors. So we like to go into, you know, a new market, find a long term property manager, that also has an associated brokerage, because what we can do is we can kind of piggyback on their infrastructure for all the big stuff like, you know, they've got the H back vendors and the plumbers and those sorts of things. Now, we would occupies a normal tenant. And then, you know, we take care of all the guests facing services, and all that sort of stuff. And then we can gather the data off of the, you know, the short term rentals and see how it performs. And then from that, we can decide where we want to, you know, allocate our capital into that future. And

Casey Brown  27:14  
I guess there's, there's probably always the option of liquidating, out if, if the worst happened, and you got into and it just didn't perform or didn't, something appeared, or, anyway, I'm sure

Unknown Speaker  27:27  
you've got the hospitality stay, you know, in terms of revenues, but then also you're backstopped by the very liquid single family homes.

Casey Brown  27:36  
Yeah. Now, one, one thing that kind of jumps to my mind, when I when I hear short term rentals, and a lot of the I don't, I tend to be a little bit of a marketer myself. So I just saw, I don't want to necessarily, like punch marketers in the eye. But one of the big things that I see all over social media, and it's a way I feel like it's kind of a hook is people talking about this rental arbitrage, where basically you go and you're like, Hey, Mr. Landlord, all I want to rent your apartment, I'll pay you a year up front, then you go to a local furniture store or whatever, and you furnish that apartment, and then you rent it out by the night, obviously, not allowing for a sub leasing clause or something like that in the initial lease. And I think a lot of landlords are getting wise to that. But is that a way to I wondered if that was a way to possibly dip your toe in on the market? That is

Unknown Speaker  28:35  
exactly what I was trying to describe. So when we go to find that that property manager that long term property manager, we, you know, we, you know, ask them to open up their book for any that they believe that they

Casey Brown  28:47  
would be open to the idea of

Unknown Speaker  28:49  
arbitrage. Right. You know, again, I agree with you, there's, there's a certain level of risk that you're taking as a property manager. Sure. Sure. You know, on the flip side, obviously, you know, we're we're a strong growing company with a lot of capital, and surely we'll pay our bills on time, we are aligned in terms of making sure that, you know, the property is taken care of that the asset is not, you know, we don't like we said up front, we don't allow or can do in any parties that are in in the properties. Yeah, the other thing is our reputation, we want to protect our reputation as

Casey Brown  29:25  
well. So yeah, and what landlord or what owner that's possibly an absentee owner of a have a home that's there on the long term side of things. If you went in and you were like, hey, we want to rent this apartment, and not most of the time, or we want to rent this house. Most of the time, the long term rental company gets collects one month's rent as a deposit and then of course, first month's rent and to go forward but, you know, if you were really wanting to dip your toe in the market and say, Hey, this is this is what we're after, and we're willing to pay double the deposit which what's a couple of grand if you were three grand, whatever it is. As we're willing to pay a double deposit, and we're willing to pay first month's, or we're willing to pay for a year out front, whatever. And then and then all of a sudden you're kind of in business there on the front end and you go in, do it, boom, boom, boom. But so so I feel like I might have to backtrack there a little bit on it being the hook. Yeah, I just feel like it's the hook on a lot of marketing.

Unknown Speaker  30:22  
Yeah, I would, I would agree with you, you need to be careful that you're you're working with someone that you trust is, you know, is going to make sure that they're managing that property? Because it could, it could backfire.

Casey Brown  30:35  
Because yeah, there's so many nuances. And there's so many different things that could happen right along the way. And again, it's a situation it's much like anything else, it's a situation on business, that your profitability is kind of leveraged off the idea of how easy you can move around within that space. Well, listen, and for Go ahead,

Unknown Speaker  30:58  
yeah, the one thing I did want to add to that is, you know, again, alignment in terms of making sure that the property is taken care of, again, if you think about it, is you're doing a rental arbitrage deal, you're having that home, potentially professionally cleaned. Sure, what a four to six times a month, and also to, you know, professional lawn care. And folks are going to want to make sure that they're taking good care of that property. So one of the things that you won't have as much in your whether it's your own property or doing rental arbitrage is a lot of deferred maintenance on properties. Yeah. And the last thing I would add to that is because we're furnishing the home, because whoever it would be that would come in and do this is a big upfront cost, as I was saying, and so we like to do durable leases. And that's one of the advantages of coming in, you know, potentially you negotiate some sort of escalation in your lease, right? Yeah. And then maybe some sort of negotiation on the deposit because of fair wear and tear, all that sort of stuff. Yep. But now you've got potentially a durable lease will go up to five years on on lease on

Casey Brown  31:59  
something that's working. Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Because why not me? Why not sure. If it's working for everybody and the landlord's happy, and you're having landlords cashflow and your cash flow, and I just did

Unknown Speaker  32:09  
now I will also say that is not where we see the big margins. Okay. We use this as kind of a data collection tool when we go into a new market. Yeah. Fast. And you know, we make some money off of it, obviously, we have to, but the big money is when you buy new hold your own property. So really, that allows us and we generally don't want to do any more than 10 rental arbitrage deals. Say like a city like Memphis, right? Yeah. 10 to 15 maybe in an area like that. But smaller, let's say like Abilene, Texas. Yeah, we probably go somewhere around five to six.

Casey Brown  32:46  
Gotcha. Okay. Well, good. Well, listen, real quick. We're running out of time. I want to I want you to feel the listeners. And do you read much? Oh,

Unknown Speaker  32:55  
I actually, I do have a book, zero to one Peter TEALS book that I'm reading right now.

Casey Brown  33:02  
That's what I wanted you to say I wanted to go right into what's the what's the best book or book you're eating? Now we generally just like to like for folks to have some kind of an idea because again, our listeners a lot of times are in the beginning stages, or they're active investors and they're always looking for for different things. Now always I've had to preface off this on this show to say any any book except for Rich Dad, Poor Dad. Every gift of God is right.

Unknown Speaker  33:30  
He's good. He's, that's what he does, though, is education. So that's exactly I think Peter TEALS book 01 is fantastic. You know, I think that kind of runs the spectrum of all kinds of business practices. Sure. Good sage advice in there. And I would highly recommend to your audience to kind of go in and pick that one up and check it out.

Casey Brown  33:49  
Awesome. Now, what is the best trip you've ever taken or a trip you hope to take in the near future? Oh,

Unknown Speaker  33:54  
okay. So by far the best trip that I've taken. Because I was a military in the military for a while and I went to the air war college, I had an opportunity to tour around Central Europe for two months. So I started out in Slovenia. We went to Vienna, we went to Prague and we went to Budapest. So

Casey Brown  34:14  
that was a culture that's a cultural

Unknown Speaker  34:18  
origins. Yeah, Ljubljana. Slovenia is probably one of the most beautiful places I've ever been. And as soon as I can get back

Casey Brown  34:26  
there wonderful, wonderful one for we're always looking for places in Europe to go because and again, I like the dish knocking basically like the Airbnb style of knocking on somebody's door and, and so and how can the listeners reach out to you or Joe and just for the for context? Joe Riley is I think he's the main owner of Patriot family homes. And he was he was had a had a consequently with investors right now. So how can how can the listeners reach out to you I want to I want to thank you all couple of things real quick. Before we jump off. I want to thank Thank you for your service to our great country, yours and Joe's as well. And we also want to thank you for taking the time and to get on here with us and fill our listeners in on what what short term rental stuff so go ahead with how they can reach out to you all if they want to learn if they want to jump in if they want to invest.

Unknown Speaker  35:17  
absolutely appreciate it. Again, we deal with you know, investors, both big investors who want to do portfolios, they come to us with upwards of 2 million in equity, able to leverage up or even just small investors who have maybe 50 to $100,000. We also do leases, like I was telling you, we do manage clients, if you've got your own property and just want to try it out. We can talk to you about that as well. We do have a special place in our heart for veterans and first responders. So please reach out to us and we'll work as best we can with you. But again, come see us at WWE dot Patriot family Feel free to reach out to me personally my first name Peter dot, Shel sh you ll at Patriot family homes, or you can run you can call me if you'd like for 843932519. And again, I'd like to tell you, thank you for what you're doing for your listeners to help educate and get people into real estate investing. You know, Andrew Carnegie said this is the absolute best safest and fastest way to build

Casey Brown  36:18  
wealth. It's definitely the safest and we've seen that I think on a number of different fronts.

Unknown Speaker  36:23  
Oh, yeah. If you've got money in the equities market right now you're not very happy, I would imagine. Yep.

Casey Brown  36:29  
Peter, thank you, sir. We appreciate your time and tell give Joe our best or willing and if we can do anything to help you all let us know. Again. Thank you so much. And thank you for listening today.

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