Casey Brown  0:00  
As an investment, cool

Hey there and welcome to the cash flow pro podcast and channel. I am sitting here today with Matt porcini. And he owns a passive investing company. And he is based in Brooklyn, New York. And Matt, how are you today?

Unknown Speaker  0:23  
I'm doing really well. How are you?

Casey Brown  0:26  
Oh, wonderful one. Friend. It's just a blessing to be here and a blessing to be sitting here talking about real estate with you today, real estate investing with you today. And hopefully, we can dig down through some of the details and and really figure out what, what brought you to what, where you are today, and then possibly even look at at where you're headed, and what your maybe some of your goals are, as far as investing goes. And so, with that being said, I kind of want to just turn the mic right over to you and let you start with your backstory. How did you get into real estate? And what got you going?

Unknown Speaker  1:03  
Sure. Do you remember 2001? Yes, I do. So in 2001, I was living in New York City, and I had my own digital marketing agency. And and in early 2001, bubble burst. Yep. And so I have a digital marketing agency, and I had none of my clients spending money on digital marketing, and a lot of them going out of business. So my business itself was imploding. It was really, really bad. And as timing would have it, I went home one night, I got a phone call from my landlord. And he told me, you've got 90 days to get out of your apartment. So they were selling, he was selling the unit. So I needed to find a new place to live. And it was this was gonna be sort of a mission impossible in New York City without the job. And without any like steady stream of income coming in, I ended up getting a full time job at Showtime, that cable television channel, they were a client of mine, they offered me a position in house. And instead of renting an apartment, I actually bought an apartment, way, way, way further Uptown than I had expected, but up in Washington Heights about 30 minutes further north of where I wanted to live. But I was able to buy something. And a little over two years later, I sold that apartment. And I saw my initial equity in the apartment, more than quadruple in value. Oh, wow. And that was a huge, huge lightbulb moment for me. And that's when I decided, okay, how do I do this real estate thing? Because yeah, that was amazing. I mean, I had a good job at that point. And I was working, I had a nice salary, I was managing a couple people within, you know, and the job that I had. But that one transaction, that one real estate transaction, I made more profit than I was making in my yearly salary. Right? It was, yeah, I was like, this is something I got to I got to figure out how to get involved in this. So that's, that's when I got involved in real estate. Around my background was sorry, my background, I had nothing to do with real estate, I was an actor, I moved to New York, I had grown up growing up in Orlando, Florida, I moved to New York to pursue a career in theater, did that professionally for five years, I was in 15 different theatrical productions throughout the country. Started doing the realist, sorry, the digital marketing thing as a hobby ended up having a business doing this. But I really wanted at that point to get involved in real estate.

Casey Brown  3:41  
Yeah, and that's how, yeah, that's how so many people, they they unintentionally house hack something and either quadruple their equity or like you said, or quarter triple or whatever it was, and then you know, and so, I mean, yeah, what a what a intriguing way to go. Now, the one thing I want to go back to real quick and, and, and a lot of people course, you know, we all have a, I have like, one of my hobbies is digital marketing. And so anytime somebody tells me, they're a digital marketer pre like Facebook, or pre social media years, I'm always intrigued by thinking, all right, you know, how did how did this really work back then? Because there wasn't any such thing as an API. There wasn't any such thing as a lead gen form. You know, maybe there was just a different version of it or whatnot. But, but bubble so So previously, previous to real estate, you were obviously invested in in digital media and digital stuff as far as as far as your abilities and so now, you move up to Jukola Washington Heights in New York City. Yeah. And from there you quiet now, did you have to sell that building in order to capture that equity or did you refinance it or how did you how did you how did you turn that into something? thing that was there was investable like investable cash or whatever.

Unknown Speaker  5:03  
Yeah, so it wasn't it wasn't a building. It was one unit in a large apartment building was a co op. Okay, and I sold it, I sold it.

Casey Brown  5:13  
Alright, so then so now you've got to work. The one thing that I think a lot of people see especially objections that I see to people selling their house when they've quadrupled their equity is then what did you then turn around and rent something? Or did you turn around and rebuy something else? The one thing that's I've seen the danger and people that say, Hey, I made so much on my equity, but I had to sell my property is then they have to turn around and spend that percentage more to replace to put a roof over their heads. Is it was that something that was the case back then? Or? Or how did that look when you when you when you moved in? And then you started kind of zooming in on or kind of moving in towards the real estate business? How did that look?

Unknown Speaker  5:56  
So I wanted to move. I didn't mind living in Washington Heights, but it's not where I really wanted to live. I wanted to live on the Upper West Side, I was able to afford a place on in Washington Heights. With the profits that I made from the sale of the property in Washington Heights, I was able to buy an apartment on the Upper West Side, which is where I had ultimately wanted to live. So that it allowed me to reach a goal that I was hoping to

Casey Brown  6:26  
share. So you just had to sacrifice a little bit of time living somewhere you didn't necessarily want to live in exchange for the equity and then that building up their pay for that apartment. Sorry,

Unknown Speaker  6:37  
correct. No problem with Washington Heights. It just wasn't like my ideal, right? My ideal was, hey, I want to live on the Upper West Side. But buying an apartment at that point in time, the dollar amount was just not feasible for me, I didn't have money saved, you know, I had a little bit of money saved up enough to put a down payment on a much smaller apartment in a property that is further away from, you know, downtown Manhattan or going to midtown Manhattan. So it's the price was there was a price point difference.

Casey Brown  7:09  
Yeah. Now, the first thing that you said was your landlord said you have 90 days to vacate. And I think that was that was of the definitely my ears perk up. Because, you know, as as we were talking about prior to prior to jumping on the recording part of this. You know, I told you I'm from a little you know, little teeny tiny Midwestern town, and we're used to operating in like 30 day, timelines. Now, one huge objection I hear from a lot of people that are in this real estate businesses is New York and California. And they're they're not, they're not landlord friendly states. Now, you said he sold the building. So you didn't, you weren't

Unknown Speaker  7:49  
clear about let me be clear about that. Okay, so the the I was in an apartment, I was actually owned by a relative of mine, okay, and I was living there and paying rent. And I was he decided that he wanted to sell his apartment. Now, had I lived in a place with a regular landlord and a lease. They also could have, I mean, I didn't have a lease, I was month a month, I lived there for years, right? And so if I was in a month a month situation in New York, they could have I mean, listen, I'm not a I'm not a legal scholar. Okay, so I'm not giving legal advice. But my understanding of the law would be, hey, if I'm not in a lease, a landlord can give you a 30 day notice, like you're saying, what I understand also about New York is that if someone were to choose not to leave, even though they were told that their lease was up, and they needed to leave, then that landlord would need to go to court. And so I don't even know what the court lines are, like right now in New York, coming out of COVID. But you did have to wait for a court date. And then there would be some sort of hearing and so, so that could take time. But if like I said, if you're not with a lease, I don't, you know, I know they say New York isn't a very landlord friendly state, which I agree with, but I don't know what the laws are. But I imagine if you're living there, and you don't have a lease, that there's probably the courts would might be a little more in favor of having you leave the apartment.

Casey Brown  9:27  
Because, yeah, it makes sense.

Unknown Speaker  9:29  
You if you had a lease, I could understand why the courts would say, Well, no, this person has a lease, they've been paying rent, blah, blah, blah. And I think that's right. New York's not very, you know, landlord friendly compared to other states.

Casey Brown  9:44  
Yeah. And I think I think when we start talking about not very landlord friendly, I really think I wanted to make sure there wasn't something there that we needed the listeners to hear that may may or may not benefit them as far as the lease goes, or, or you know, but I think what we what we all fear are well What I think when we talk about not landlord friendly is rent control kind of stuff. Maybe not necessarily being forced to vacate a property one way or the other. Now if you don't pay your rent attorney told me one time you don't pay you don't stay. And I think that's the case just about anywhere. But it's depend on how long you how long you get to stay, if you don't pay. So anyway, so So now we're we're kind of moving on down the road, and you've had you bought you sold. Now you've now you've replaced and got your your residence and you're like, Alright, hey, this, this light bulb is flickering. And you're like, I've got to figure this out, because it's obviously a path to something. So tell us what was your next step? And we're, you know, you're working a good job at at Showtime. Right? Showtime or Cinemax? Showtime? And so you're, you're working a good job there. And life's pretty good. Or am I right? Do you know you've got your house or you've got your apartment? You've got everything going? And then you step into the real estate game?

Unknown Speaker  11:03  
Yeah, and then I stepped into the real estate game. So you know, those first two purchases were primary residences, places where I live, so not necessarily investments. I mean, you could say that they were an investment but not not really like investment, investment, real estate as one might think. And so I lived in the apartment, on the Upper West Side for about 10 years. During that time, I worked at several different jobs sort of climbing the corporate ladder, in the advertising world in New York. And after a little bit over a year or so after I had moved into an apartment, I bought my first investment. That was a property was a it was a piece of land. Maybe maybe a little bit more your speed. Yeah, yeah. Because it was in it was in Northwest Connecticut, right. So it was in a bit more not as rural I think is where you're living, right. But still a bit more rule country. I bought in a so there's a an area, that is nice development that has a lake, and I didn't I didn't get lakefront property, that would have been nice. It wasn't at that level yet. But my friends, really good friend of mine, one of my best friends, her father, and mother moved to that area of town. And they got they got married to this part of Connecticut, Northwest Connecticut. They got they got married up there, my friend and her husband, sure to my closest friends. And so I saw this beautiful area up here and they would go up during the summer, invite me to come up once in a while stay at their, their parents had it like a guest area, like the guest like actually a guest suite, they were going to make a b&b out of it. They never did. But so it was great. And it was awesome. And I'll go up there and, and relax a little bit. And so one time when I went up there, my friend's father John asked me, he said, Hey, you know, I need a website. I'm doing real estate up here. You know, we need a website. I know you do websites, so could you make a website for me, my business partner? And I was like, Yeah, sure. And he says, Listen, I want to take you to this area where we do a lot of business, this community, the lake and everything. So I went there, because he was like, I just want you to see it. So you get an idea for the website. And I saw it and I was like, wow, because when we will go visit with him, he lived in an area where you know, it's just very rural, lots of lots of land, lots of cows, you know, just sort of that that kind of feel, which was awesome. And we loved it. But we go to this community, and it's like, a lot more a little more densely populated. And there's like a lake, like a good lake with like, people skiing, like build boats, right? And Olympic sized pool, and eight tennis courts and a clubhouse and, you know, a very nice looking community. And I was like, wow, this is really cool. And that's where they did a lot of business. And they were showing me around different houses that they had listed some houses that they had that were under construction with clients of theirs, and then drove by a lot that they had listed, you know, just the empty vacant lot. And so I was like, how much is a lot costs, you know, just kind of curious. Yeah. And when he told me the price, my jaw almost hit the floor because I was used to these New York City prices, right? And so this is like seem really inexpensive. And I thought about it, and I decided to buy a lot. It was just about an acre of land. And what it did was it gave me rights to the lake, and all the amenities and everything right. So if we went to go visit her parents, right, my friend's parents, yeah, we could go to the lake and hang out at the lake and go to the pool and do this and do that. And so I was like, Oh, this sounds like fun. So I'll get this investment and I'll have some perks with it. That's true. So I bought the land. And then I bought the worst boat ever purchased.

Unknown Speaker  15:10  
It was the cheapest, it was the cheapest boat, it would almost always stall in the middle of the lake. And I'd have to call and get somebody to tow me back. And it was bad. But I did it because I wanted to get a space on the data Marina and Andy's docks. But there was a waiting list for the docks. So you had to get a boat to get on the waiting list. So my dad had actually recommended me he's like, listen, I know you think you're probably gonna sell that the property because if I didn't know that I was gonna necessarily build the house. But if you ever decide you want to build a house or whatever, like, get on that waiting list, so that you can have a dock space because it might take you several years. So that's I bought the cheapest boat I could get just so that I could be on the waiting list. And I figured out if I ever, you know, decide to stay here I'll get a nicer boat or something. Maybe I'll upgrade at some point boats are really expensive. I had no idea like a really nice car. The price of a boat.

Casey Brown  16:12  
Yeah. The two best days of a boat owners lives today you buy the day sell it. It's what I've always ever because of the because of the stalling in the end. It's always something with a boat. It's always so yeah,

Unknown Speaker  16:25  
when this boat was like just it had seen it better days it was in it was in bad shape. And I knew it. But I got a real bargain on the price. And it was really just a placeholder. So I bought that property. And a few years later, I decided to actually build. So we knocked down the trees. And we dug a hole and poured a foundation and built a house. And I learned a ton about real estate. I mean, I really learned what what real estate is made of like literally from the ground up, right, I learned so much. It was an incredible experience. And then right as soon as this the right around the time, it was finished. I met this lovely lady who spoiler alert is now my wife. Man, she had a place where her parents have a place in in Connecticut as well, but on the other side of the state. And there was a tremendous amount of interest in renting the the house that I built more more than I had anticipated. My plan was a buy this house, I'll rent it out for a couple months during the summer. The rest of the time, I'll have it as a vacation home to get away from you know, the concrete jungle of the mountain and go get some, you know, get some, some r&r and breathe in some fresh air right? Yep. And what happened was right before the house was even done being built, there was someone who wanted to rent it for the whole summer. So I did that. And that's the time that I met my wife was shortly after that summer. And then there was someone who wanted to rent it for the winter, which I wasn't anticipating. But there's a ski mountain right around the corner. So it's not like a place you'd go on a ski vacation. But if you lived in New York City, and you want to teach your kids to ski it's like a quick two hour drive. And it's like a decent ski mountain with like, they have like a little racing team for beginners. It's perfect, right? Yeah, yeah. So I didn't even anticipate that. And then, you know, at that point, someone reached out to me to rent for the next summer. And I spoke to Erica, my wife about it. And I was like, Well, I don't know, like, you've never even seen the house. I want you to come up. I was thinking we'd spend some time during the summer. She's like, rent it. My parents are never home during the summer, we can go to their house if we want to get away. Yeah. And so this thing was a rental, like from the day I got that certificate of occupancy. Yeah, I never spent more than, you know, a week or two per year up there. You know, I go up for like a weekend here and spend most of the time actually fixing something at the house or having a contractor come in to do servicing different parts of the house. So I learned a lot during that time about, you know, after it was constructed about dealing with tenants, dealing with leases, managing properties, managing them remotely because I live two hours away. Yeah. And also I learned a really fun stuff like accounting and depreciation, right? All the boring not fun stuff that you have to do when you have a have a rental. And so this experience of this house that would Ridge Lake, I mean, I think I mentioned that I have this book. It's a whole chapter in the book, talking about all the different things that I learned and what a what an incredible experience it was.

Casey Brown  19:49  
Sure. So obviously, you you discover what so many people discover when they buy something that maybe they consider to be well a couple of different things here. There's a couple different things here to unpack as far as this experience goes that you're outlining for us. And the first being the the benefits that went along with just owning the lot. I mean, the ability to use the amenities and you know, and then I guess eventually have a boat slip or spot at the marina or whatever you whatever it's called. And then, of course, stepping into a spot right there where there's basically a dual season, ability to rent you know, where we're from here. If you have a house on the lake, you have a house on the lake, you don't have a house on the lake that then people want to use, you know, they might use it for Christmas day or something like that, but but they don't they don't use it because there's nothing else to do during the winter except stared brown trees. And some people like that wrong, but but having a dual purpose. So so some of this stuff seems like it like it just kind of like, like, maybe there was a little bit of luck involved, obviously, with with some of the things that you didn't anticipate you people coming along, and there

Unknown Speaker  21:05  
was a lot of luck.

Casey Brown  21:06  
And yeah, well, that's it well, and a lot of people don't admit that, hey, maybe luck was a little bit on my side. And, and but you know, my father used to tell me that luck is where hard work and opportunity cross. And so you never would have have had that. had that happen? Had you not taken a little bit of risk to get to get started. And you know, the you could have very easily bought the lot and everybody would have been like, Hey, man, that thing, you know, they've built on that lot for a reason, because it's getting ready to whatever, just sinkhole lender or something, you know, so so, you know, there's there's definitely those those types of scenarios as well. But

Unknown Speaker  21:42  
yeah, one things I talk about in the book, Casey is is the fact that I was able to surround myself with a bunch of experts. Awesome. So I was really lucky in the fact that I had John, who was my friend's father, who's a real estate agent who knew the property. He was like family to me, he still lives, right. I mean, I know the guy at that point for over 10 years and was like best friends with his his daughter and son in law. Right and your baby. Right? So So I had him on my side. And I knew he wasn't going to sell me a property that you know, was in the middle of a sinkhole, right? Yeah. And yeah, he helped me find a really great builder. And so it and that's one of the takeaways from that chapter is about surrounding yourself, if you're going into doing something new and different, like real estate, if you surround yourself with experts, I mean, like, Casey, I know, you probably don't talk about it much on this podcast, but like, I know that you you're a real estate investor, and you've got to fund right. And so people can go ahead and say, Well, look, I know that Casey knows what he's doing. Right? And so therefore, I'm going to invest with him. Or maybe not, I'm not, I'm not endorsing you, we're not endorsing you, I'm just saying like that. That's the kind of thing I mean, that's what I do. Now, we might get into it later. But like, now I do like large apartment investments. And two thirds of my portfolio are deals that I'm a passive investor in. And so there's other people that I know that know what they're doing that I vetted, and I spent time getting to know them. And I look at their deals, and I underwrite them all. Okay. But when they feel comfortable about it, I just go ahead and invest with them. The other third of the portfolio deals that I'm doing right, and I have other investors come along with me on mine. But yeah, I'm surrounding yourself with experts who know what they're doing. Reduce, there's still risk involved. There's risk involved in walking up the door in the morning, too. But the risk level comes down when you have experienced people on your side.

Casey Brown  23:41  
Yeah. And that's what and you're you're spot on there. And I think I think that something that I mentioned a matter of fact, a couple of weeks ago on this podcast was, I believe, and I've always kind of wondered or tried to remember way back when I heard this quote, but if you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. And I think we, we we have I have certainly tried to live by that when the opportunity given because a lot of times getting people who are who are who I consider to be the next level above me together where I can actually learn and you know, comes very briefly at times at conferences and things like that, and, and that's what that's what I really enjoy the most about. My job is looking up at other people and learning what these operators know. Because when we're, uh, you're right when we have you know, our fund, basically we're doing exactly what you just said we're vetting the sponsors because not only is it my money going in with the sponsors, but it's it's investors that come along with me is money going in the sponsors and these these people are are trusting that I know and I've vetted and looked at the sponsor much like yourself, so with that being said, you know, you're exactly right and you couldn't be more spot on nail on the head, whatever it is. With, with what you're saying, surround yourself by experts. And and and and it's not it doesn't even just have to be you know, there's there's experts in plumbing there's experts in electrical, there's experts and it doesn't have to be one expert that knows everything, you know, if you're if you're trying to remodel, especially in New York and again, we from from the small rural areas, we have to somewhat imagine what it's like to trade real estate and be involved in deals, you know, in that area specifically, just because of the of the, you know, the common ownership and things like that that could be involved, it seems like at times am I right about that, like, there's just there's a different nuance thing. I don't

Unknown Speaker  25:42  
invest in the Northeast, and I don't own anything in the northeast area. I am the my residents now, but most of the investments that I do are in in the south, and then the Midwest, in the Midwest.

Casey Brown  25:56  
Awesome. Okay. All right. Well, let's so let's so so obviously, do you still own the vacation home? Is that somewhere? Is that something? You use your soul? Oh,

Unknown Speaker  26:05  
no, I sold it. I wish I hadn't sold it before. COVID. Yeah, done really well, selling. And at that time, because prices went up like crazy. But no, I ended up selling the property. Look, I was never meant to be an investment property. Sure. And like, if that opportunity came around again, I wouldn't I wouldn't do it at this point in time, based on what I know, right? Yeah, the lessons that I learned were worth their weight in gold. I didn't lose money on the deal. I about broke even when I sold it many years later. And I had all these years of enjoyment, tons of learning, and some nice tax benefits from it as well. But yeah, all the equity and appreciation on that property over time went into a bunch of multifamily investments.

Casey Brown  26:52  
If you if you increased your your, if you increase the return on the capital money that was sitting there, then obviously, I mean, you can't say that it was anything but a good move. I mean, if as long as you know, that return kept increasing,

Unknown Speaker  27:09  
you know, what it was, there was expenses and things, you know, the the way that it worked out was that every year that I owned that property, there was a slight deficit in terms of cash flow. So I would never really quite breakeven, maybe I would lose like four or $5,000 a year on that property with it rented full time. But I was also gaining about six or $7,000 per year of equity in the property. Yeah. So it was kind of almost like a forced savings, if you will. And so overall, when all of a sudden Doug and I sold the property, it was okay. And I had a bunch of equity in the property that I then got the equity out and was able to reinvest that and deploy that into things that are now producing some nice passive cash flow. Sure, then it just kind of sitting in an asset.

Casey Brown  28:04  
Yeah, yeah. And then And then again, if it says especially to if it's spread out over over more than just one asset spread out over a few deals a risk is not quite as you don't take on quite as mature. So let's we're running tight on time here is as that seems to be the normal go to since at this point in the podcast seems like every time we always get to talking about everything in life and then so but I want to hear a little bit about where you're at today. Like what what you were talking about south southeast Midwest, investment stuff that you personally and and and passively LP or GP side either one have going on right now.

Unknown Speaker  28:44  
Well, I'll give you a really quick recap. So from that house, we ended up I ended up buying a property in Brooklyn, it was actually a house hack. It was an accidental house hack I didn't know was a house hack at the time. So then I ended up moving to Florida. And in Florida is when we started looking into do real estate full time. There's a whole reason why and a whole transition there. But I started doing real estate full time. When we when we moved down there that was a little over six years ago. We were in Miami for a couple years in Boston for four and just moved back to New York about eight months ago. And so during that time, over the past six and a half years or so I started investing passively in real estate deals. I've got over 6000 units now that I'm a passive investor in the across many different operators in several different locations. Yep. And then I have a little over 2400 doors right now that I'm a general partner on. And so those are deals that you know I've gone with, gotten a bunch of investors to put these together these syndications and I actively manage those syndications. And those are you know, primarily in the South and the Midwest. A lot in Texas. We have some in Kansas City. The numbers don't really make sense in the Northeast. So that's why I don't really have anything up here. I would love to invest in my backyard. Sure, but the numbers don't make sense. So

Casey Brown  30:12  
it seems like it seems like that's always a you know, every time I've ever talked about or think about, or even remotely start reading about investing in California, or New York, or northeast or even west coast, whatever you want, whatever general geographic area, you want to refer to it as it's the peaks and valleys are steep. As far as like, if you were to chart the values that the peaks and valleys are steep, so there's big money to be made big money to be lost. But the benefit is, is that they're closer together. So the faster something goes up, or the faster something comes down, the faster it's going to turn, you know, the chance of attorney going back up. Is that do you find that to hold true? Well, I found

Unknown Speaker  30:56  
that in the North East, you know, having lived here a lot, right. I lived in I've lived in New York City, we combined for 25 years, I think and we were in Boston for for so almost 30 years living up here. Not all of it full time in real estate, but but still involved in real estate to one extent or another most of that time. I have found, I don't really I understand what you're saying about peaks and valleys. And I think that is true on the coasts, more so than the middle of the country. Okay, I haven't seen that. In New York. I have, I have seen some valleys don't get me wrong when I bought the place on the Upper West Side. And it went up for two years. And then we had the 2008 crash down. But it had gone up so much. I was just back at where I had bought it for. So it wasn't underwater, anything on the mortgage, but it was tough. And then it slowly went back up. The issue that I have with investing in the North East is I'm a cash flow investor. Yep. And it's, it's nearly impossible to find anything up here that cash flows. Now appreciation is great. I mean, take the accidental house hack, which we moved back into we live here in Brooklyn in this house. This This was a two family. It has gone up in value. Incredible, incredible, incredible. Value appreciation, right? But we're kind of in that situation that you had talked about on the first property were okay, but if I sell it, what am I gonna, you know, I can't buy something around the corner here. I can sell it and make money, but I am gonna pay a lot more for something but longer term, maybe I'll sell this eventually, that's fine. The problem with this property is that when it's rented, it doesn't cashflow incredibly well. Like if you look at the equity that I have involved in this deal, I could turn around and sell this apartment, let's say I moved to wherever somewhere else, okay. And I could take the equity to chapter this place, sell it and then deploy that into cash flowing assets, I would have a lot more cash flow. Because these properties just they don't cash flow that great, but they go up in value a lot. Yeah, so there's so many different things.

Casey Brown  33:13  
Yeah, and there's so many books, and so many experts, and everybody, and they all seem to have the main one main a great thing that they all agree on. And that is do not buy for appreciation, buy for cash flow, if you buy for cash flow, everything else will take care of itself. But if you're buying for appreciation, and because some of these funds and some of these things, if you get into like just for instance, a closed in fund and you've got a drop dead date, at the very end that no matter what, you know, you might have an extension period in there two years and, and two years may not be long enough to recoup where something's at that day, it has to be sold. So, you know, there's just there's so many benefits to but but of course, you know, there's a lot of people in those areas that have that have figured it out. But in my opinion in this, this is simply My opinion is that that almost somebody has to either be from somewhere like that, or live actively live somewhere like that, to have the finger on the pulse of what's going on on the daily basis. That's just my thoughts. But again, you're obviously you live there, you're from there, you've been there for many, many years, and you're not doing it so then that now that may have just just completely washed that that thought that I had. So

Unknown Speaker  34:30  
I think I think it depends on an investor's objectives, right. Like if you're looking for like long term capital preservation generational wealth, I think you could do really well buying something that you would hold long term like 1020 30 years in New York or in Boston, Boston's an awesome area for that. But you're not going to grow your wealth and you're not going to have cash flow. It's like if you just going to park your money some you know you got got 100 million and you need a part 10 million somewhere Like, then it makes sense.

Casey Brown  35:03  
It's almost institutional kind of stuff. Correct?

Unknown Speaker  35:04  
Correct. Or they

Casey Brown  35:06  
work really well for them. So there's a lot

Unknown Speaker  35:09  
of families, especially in Boston, that own property, but have owned it, like, there's no mortgage on it. They've owned these properties for generations, right? Yeah. And you can create this generational wealth. But I think most investors are not looking at a 3040 50 year time horizon. And so if that's not what you're looking for, and also to, to if you're looking to generate passive income, which is what I'm very, very interested in, right? Having these little multiple streams of passive income that's going to come from cash flow. That's right. And then appreciation can be great. But you can't you can't count on it.

Casey Brown  35:46  
Yeah, you can't Well, if you if you if you can crowd up the cash flow to crowd out the cash flow and then invest it reinvested into other passive investing.

Unknown Speaker  35:57  
That's what I do. That's my game plan.

Casey Brown  35:58  
Yeah, I mean, that's really great. Well, listen, man, I can't thank you enough for being with us today. I can't thank you enough for sharing your what, uh, what comes out as being life experiences that translate into the real estate investing world that really kind of makes this whole the whole world tick in a way. And so you know, when we when we're able to take where you're at today and apply it to real life examples, and people pull out little pieces and parts of maybe they're at a spot where you were at one point, it really helps them out. So again, I can't thank you enough for being with us. I want you to real quick, tell the listeners how they can reach out to you how they can get in touch with you, especially if they're maybe interested in looking at something that you're investing in, or possibly talking to you about your book or learning about learning more about you in general.

Unknown Speaker  36:47  
Yeah, real quick, that book that I talk, it goes into detail on all those stories we talked about and even more and pulls out these Keystone concepts that I learned along my journey. So it's really good for people who are interested in passively investing, it gives you some things to look at. And it starts really basic. And by the end of the book, I'm talking about air rights deals and 1031 exchanges. If you want to know more about the book or about me, I have a an investor newsletter that I send up. It's got tips and tricks, I've got a real estate blog with tons of information on it. All of that is available on my website, which is put So I'll spell it real quick. It's P like and Peter i c h e n And I'm sure you're probably put a link to it in the show notes. Calm to get all that stuff.

Casey Brown  37:35  
Awesome. Well, Matt, thank you so much again, and I hope everybody has a wonderful day out there. And again, thank you for listening to the cashflow pro podcast. I want to remind you to check us out on the Money Talks Mondays and the F everything Fridays. We want to keep you actively investing passively in real estate and we will see you at the next one. Thank you, Matt. Thank you. Oh my pleasure.

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